| cbreeze |
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I'm a new assistant at a HS where Sprints are pretty good. Our 4x4 has potential to run ~3:10 - this is by way of two 48ish guys and two 52ish guys. Head coach insists on running fastest to slowest in that order. I proposed: 2nd fastest, 3rd fastest, 4th fastest, fastest. I believe the anchor NEEDS to be the #1 man, incase they get in trouble - especially if Q for the finals are in order...thoughts? I'm not real sure on how to defend myself as a) I'm new and b) that's just the only logical way to run a relay to me... |
| Ben Johnson |
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Two 48s and two 52s is not getting you anywhere near 3:10, for what it's worth. Two fastest legs should be last. Would rather see them playing catch up. Lead-off guy should be the most consistent out of the remaining two guys. |
| gunz up! |
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If by not anyywhere near you mean he should expect a 3:19 on a good day then I agree. Try setting the team as 3,4,2,1, in order of runners 3rd fastest open 400. |
| isleow |
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You meant 3:20, right? I generally like to go 3-2-4-1, where 1 is the fastest and 4 is the slowest. However, there are several other considerations: 1. Is one guy clearly better out of the blocks than the other three? If so, put him first. 2. Is one guy a more aggressive, bulldog-type personality than the other three? If so, put him second so that he can make the break and put your team in position. |
| cbreeze |
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Thanks for responses. Yes, 3:20 is more like it, not 3:10...mybad |
| i got the runs |
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Put some consideration to who you're racing. The logic behind fastest to slowest is good when the team you're racing is faster (maybe 3:17) with the idea to hang with them as long as you can. Another consideration that a coach of mine used was to put the physically stronger runners as 3rd and 4th legs since there is more pushing in the exchange zone on those. |
| watchout |
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^winner. |
| the smartest letsrunner |
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3:20 should be a logical goal, obviously enough given the times you list. A pretty standard approach: Anchor: Fastest* Lead: Second fastest Second: Slowest If anyone, including the anchor, is fast and consistent out of the blocks, lead is good for them. It might not seem intuitive, but lead can also be SOMETIMES be good for choke artists, head cases and less experienced guys, who often go out too hard or otherwise crap the bed in the later legs. Finally, it's nice to have a rise-to-the-occasion clutch performer for anchor (e.g. Donovan Bailey, or Jason Lezak in swimming), although generally rock-solid (e.g. Michael Johnson, Asafa Powell) is most important there. |
| .............................. |
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there is not SET STANDARD, it depends on personnel and situation. In general: First leg requures proper use of blocks and the ability to not be bothered by the 3 turn stagger. It is foolish in an evenly matched race to try to make up a 3 turn stagger like one might in an open 400. And if you are in an outside lane, when you hit the home stretch you could still have 130+ meters to run, not 100. So they must know all those things. With a 3 turn stagger the lead off person must be seasoned enough to know how to run 400m well given the uniqueness of the set up. Leg 2 runs first turn in lanes, so a good place to put an 800m runner who does that and knows how to break gradually while avoiding trouble. Sometimes when we are trying to run very fast against very strong competition we will front load the relay so we can "stay in it", and then just hope the last leg or 2 runs scared enough to pull something off or at least get a taste of what running really fast reuqires. Like at Penn RElays where positioning in a crowded field and getting noticed are the goal, we run fastest in first 2 legs. When we are clearly the best, or have qualifying, we run slowest to fastest allowing our last 2 people to ensure the win or advancement with as little effort as possible. Right now, because I have 2 800m runnners on the team, I go 2(400 runner),3, 4, 1(400m runner). I could never lead off either of our 2 800m runners. There is no simple formula, your head coach could be right if he has the right reasoning, as could you. Nothing wrong with experimenting throughout the season so you have it right for when it counts come championship time |
| not this time |
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If the head coach says run fastest to slowest then run fastest to slowest. And your logic that running your way is the only logical way to run means you have a lot to learn. |
| carol zilli likes the long leg |
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Above points all are valid But 400 is not about being fastest out of the blocks In the 4x1 and 4x2 it plays a bigger role than in the 4x4 Knowing how to run in a stagger and cutting in safely play a much more important role. For HS runners, in general, I do not like the fastest to slowest idea to 'keep them in the race as long as possible' unless it is about pointscore/winning a final in an important meet. We are dealing with HS runners here it seems and anchor position is often looked at as the reward for being fastest runner. A 48 guy in the blocks with teams having 52 sec guys lead off means he'll bring the stick in at 50 point and some yards ahead. Voila, you have turned a potential sub 48(moving start, catch the guy in front of you impdedus)leg into a 50 point leg- not good for cumulative time. Get the stick to the finish line in the shortest time is the goal not winning as many legs as possible and being "in it". It is the total team time that counts. I feel you always must promote the "for the team" attitude in HS. Being part of something bigger builds better adults. I'm glad no one played the put the fastest on the longer leg card. |
| 4X4 anchor |
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I'm an 4X400m anchor at high school right now but from my own experience I think coaches shouldn't focus on who goes what leg depending on their time. What I mean is that there are people who do better when they have their own lane, and people who do better at chasing people. I am not the fastest runner in our 4X4 team, but I personally do better when I chase someone, so my coach usually puts me as anchor. Yesterday, we got 3:43 (which isn't as good as what your team might get) but that is still pretty fast in our league. There's also the length you have to consider because not all 4 runners run exactly 400m (as you know) |
| Barakus'Obama |
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If your fastest runner isn't the most experienced guy of the team ,use the Baylor 04' relay strategy. The fastest in third (Jeremy Wariner) and the most experienced (Darold Williamson) in 4th. |
| watchout |
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The types of runners and personality of runners should definitely play a significant role, just as much as the capability of the runners (it can also depend on how competitive you are with the rest of the field, but having kids being used to running X leg can also help) You want your anchor leg to be the guy that will catch the other guys at the end of the race (if necessary). You want the second leg to put you ahead of the pack to make the third handoff easier. If you have a guy that isn't very good at hand-offs as your leadoff (he'll only have to be involved in one handoff). But if there isn't a significant difference between the runners in that regard... close with your fastest guy, and get ahead in the second leg (your #2). Depending on the depth of your team, experience and consistency of the runners and the competition you face, your slowest leg will either be third or leading off. |
| steve red |
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Slowest 1st and tell them to just do their best to keep up. Fastest 3rd leg. hey will make up ground on what is usually a teams' slowest runner. Put your "animal" (every team has one) last. The guy who refuses to be beat or lose. And whoever is left runs 2nd. |