NCAA Ban on Native American Mascots in Post Season - Where Do You Stand?

You're correct. Additionally, the NCAA doesn't appear concerned about names that might be offensive to other cultures, gender or religion. That is discrimination.

No mention of him being beheaded from the above sites.

Here is a mention of the beheading, but it was post-mortem and looks like it was not done by order of the government.

As for the changing of the mascot not being as bad, tell that to Marquette or even St. John's (although I found Red Men to be a little over the top).

According to some lines of reasoning, if even one person is offended, then the name would have to be changed. Just do away with mascots completely then as you can always find someone who is going to be offended.

There is no Constitutional right not to be offended.

No matter what mascot one uses, its rivals will find some way to make fun of it.

Billy Mills must not have a clue as to how Universities operate if he does not think they should ask alumni for money. I wonder if Billy Mills feels like he is prostituting things when he raises money for his organization.

I realize that Mills probably said this a while ago, but I think there are bigger issues facing the US now (say people wanting to fly planes into buildings).

The problems is a sensitivity to culture. I'm part Lakota Sioux, and I have no real gripe with the Seminoles, but it's difficult to split hairs over what is culturally tasteful and appropriate and what is not. So... if you are going to ban someone's mascot, then you kind of have to ban them all (otherwise you will face years of legal fees for each individual case).

I also look at it another way (and everyone will say it's not equivalent, but it is, we're just slightly prejudiced)... what if a mascot were a blackface (a white actor who in the 1800s put soot on his face to be black, dance around and be made fun of)? That's TERRIBLY offensive, yet that's sort of the equivalent to people throwing on Native garb and dancing around without regards to the cultural roots. And it's not just the mascot, it's all the frats that will undoubtedly have their own "Indian" for every event or every pre-game BBQ where everyone will put on "war paint". How many of you know the history of the opression of the Native tribes or the current state of poverty and hopelessness in which many of them live?

Just because there hasn't been a full-scale Native American civil rights revolution does not mean we shouldn't be sensitive to them also. I don't agree with banning a particular mascot, becuase I would hope that people would be more cogniscent of what they are portraying and choose to have pretty culturally sensitive mascots and rallies. I believe in educating the dumb masses, but that's always the hard way out, and the NCAA isn't in the business of taking the challenging road.

The NCAA spends most of their time wringing their hands while drinking coffee at Star Bucks.How about the schools that have the Devil for their mascot?It wouldn't surprise me if some christians might be offended by the Devil.

The way in which the tribes are depicted obviously makes a big difference. I know there has been serious upset over the Illini mascot at the University of Illini.

We're sensitive to everyone except christians.

These people who sit on these commitees are makeing big dollars there is plenty of money to be made,when it comes to the victimazation of minority groups. It has actually become an industry. Where in the constitution does it say that you have a right to not be offended. I know there used to be a right to free speech. when was that right taken away? I guess last week.

I am opposed to the ASU Sun Devils. How can an anti - god name be used, even for a sports team.

How about the Demon Deacons of Wake Forest? It offends Christians because of the demonic attributes and it also pisses the Muslims off because the mascot is both a demon AND a member of the Christian clergy.

Tufts Jumbos - offends the morbidly obese

Syracuse Orangemen - offends those with bad sunburns and fake tans

USC Trojans - they claim it's from Greek mythology but we all know it's a front for Planned Parenthood

Arizon State Sun Devils - Satanism wrapped up in fun

Delaware Blue Hens - portrays female poultry as both pornographic and violent

Damn! I've offended myself just writing this.

Well at least Syracuse has changed it too strictly Orange, no more men or women attached.

I know this is simplifying the whole thing but "vikings" could be insensitive to Scandanavians. I mean they make like everyone is wearing these goofy horned helmets and has to have long blonde hair.

One I still am amazed at is Rebels; for Ole MIss and UNLV

I guess amazed at might be strong, just suprised more isnt made of it.

UPenn Quakers - offends the Religious Society of Friends to the point where they may turn violent.

Stanford Cardinal, Dartmouth Big Green, Cornell Big Red - how the heck can a color be a team mascot? What are you gonna use, a Crayola? OK, Stanford has a sequoia tree, which makes absolutely no sense: maybe someone can explain why that represents Cardinal. And why not Cardinal*S* i.e the bird, instead of some abstract color? No wonder Lanana left.

Thats cool comparing Native Americans to animals.

Heh Heh Heh.

The goofy liberals tried to get U-mass which are known as the minutemen to change there name. The usual liberal reasons racism, insensitiveity,You would almost think it was a joke. the sad thing is they were serious.

It's not condescending and racist on my part. I brought up the SI poll because there was a large outcry after the story ran, and the controversy that followed gives an interesting glimpse into the issue. I can't find any links doing a quick internet search, but feel free to respond to the arguments made by those opposed to the poll instead fo simply dismissing their reaction out of hand.

Further, I am not the one saying that Native Americans don't know what's good for them; it is other leaders in the Native American community, the ones leading the fight, who have said that. In fact, there are members of the Seminole tribe in Oklahoma who have gone on record saying that about the tribe in Florida--that thye haven't explored the issue.

Finally, your last example falls flat because the issue centers around who it is that is doing the naming. The NCAA allowed UNC Pembroke to keep its mascot because the school was founded by American Indians and is largely American Indian. Your example also fails because none of these mascots, in the beginning, were intended to honor American Indians. That has been a recently adopted defense by these schools. Watch the film "In Whose Honor?" to find out more about Chief Illiniwek, for example.

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You make some fair points, but I think you lack some hard data to back up the argument. It's interesting that when one side's position (liberal or conservative, doesn't matter) is soundly rejected in a poll, it must be the polling methodology that is screwed up. Or, even worse, the members who took the poll didn't understand what they were doing. That's sort of condescending and racist on your part, isn't it? You are basically saying that white liberal elites know better than Native Americans themselves what's good for them. The Native Americans are just too stupid to realize these Universities are actually exploiting them and perpetuating negative stereotypes.

Flipping the whole argument around, let's assume for a second that there were NO Native American mascots in the NCAA. Then a university decides to change its mascot to Seminoles, but the NCAA says no. Wouldn't the Seminole Tribe have a legitimate grievance against the NCAA? Couldn't they legitimately argue that an animal, like a Gator, shouldn't get more respect than a more prominent group in American history? Couldn't they claim that the NCAA banning Native American mascots is just another chapter in 'keeping the Native American' down? After all, how much political power do Native Americans have inside the NCAA hierarchy?[/quote]

again, no one has complained about those images. they do not reduce a culture to stereotypical images that lead some people to believe that Indians were nothing but bloodthirsty people who did the Tomahawk Chop and threw flaming spears into the ground. You are talking about a minority group that is one of the worst off in 21st century America. That's why it is different.

Reality Czech wrote:

How about the Demon Deacons of Wake Forest? It offends Christians because of the demonic attributes and it also pisses the Muslims off because the mascot is both a demon AND a member of the Christian clergy.

Tufts Jumbos - offends the morbidly obese

Syracuse Orangemen - offends those with bad sunburns and fake tans

USC Trojans - they claim it's from Greek mythology but we all know it's a front for Planned Parenthood

Arizon State Sun Devils - Satanism wrapped up in fun

Delaware Blue Hens - portrays female poultry as both pornographic and violent

Damn! I've offended myself just writing this.

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JimG wrote:

Stanford Cardinal, Dartmouth Big Green, Cornell Big Red - how the heck can a color be a team mascot? What are you gonna use, a Crayola? OK, Stanford has a sequoia tree, which makes absolutely no sense: maybe someone can explain why that represents Cardinal. And why not Cardinal*S* i.e the bird, instead of some abstract color? No wonder Lanana left.

I asked a patronizing Stanford alum that same thing. The answer was (with a straight face) "Stanford is in Palo Alto, and in Spanish Palo Alto means 'tall tree'" No shit. Only Stanford isn't actually in Palo Alto, it's next to it. I took it that "Professorville" and "Atherton" couldn't conjure the same imagery as "Palo Alto."

Of course, Stanford's original mascot was the Indian from 1930 to 1972.

Perhaps the only mascot that would make sense on Leland's farm is "Robber Baron?"

This shouldnt be a liberal vs conservative issue. It is a first ammendment issue the right to free speech this impacts all americans, both liberals and conservatives.

I can't wait for the hacky sack season to start!

Reality Czech wrote:

As seen on ESPN 17 on January 1, 2031, a CGI holographic projection of the late Keith Jackson appears on our Sony TVC15 televised entertainment systems…