we fly to mexico to get my wife's anti-seizure drug (Vimpat has only one manufacturer in the world and no generic until 2022 maybe), no prescription , just walk in. pharmacies we go to has an md to discuss use if you want to do so (ours went to med school in usa) , explain use, etc. we save ~$7000/yr a dirty coach could just fly down or drive across from texas, arizona, and california or hire someone to do so. mexico does not require prescriptions as best i know.
Raising the question is a positive thing to do, but after you have to listen to the answer.
I have many Europeans and one Australian training in Iten with me. Nobody goes Iten because there is the possibility to HIDE for doping themselves.
One of the athletes is Sondre Moen, that from when accepted to spend the most part of his training in altitude (not only in Kenya, but almost 3 months per year in Sestriere in Italy), moved all his PB : 3000m from 8'01" to 7'52", 5000m from 13'31" to 13'20", 10000m from 28'31" to 27'24", HM from 62'18" to 59'48", and Marathon from 2:12 to 2:05:48.
Another is Philipp Pflieger from Germany. He started with me only at the beginning of January, is an athlete with a PB of 2:12:50 in 2015, and till now moved his PB in HM from 63:14 in 2018 to 62:50 in Barcelona two weeks ago. He is not one of the top in the World, but in two months already had in Iten tests OOC on Tuesday 14th Jan, Tuesday 28th Jan and Tue 11th Feb, plus the test in competition after Barcelona (16th Feb).
What you don't know, or, if you know, don't understand, is that for training at maximal level, everybody needs to have MODELS and EXAMPLES, and to live in an ambience all connected with training. When you are in Iten, and you go for the first session at 6 in the morning, you can meet several groups of runners (every group including some Marathon runner from 2:06 and 2:10) made of 60-100 units, and some time you can join them, understanding their mentality in training, something very different from the mentality of European or the average of US runners.
The behavior of Kenyans and Ethiopians is to start from the INTENSITY, step by step becoming able to EXTEND their ability to run long and fast. The behavior of European and American is to start from the EXTENSION, with the idea to qualify the volume step by step approaching the race. But, if you are not a NORMAL user of high intensity, YOU CAN'T PREPARE YOUR MIND AND YOUR BODY TO THE LEVEL OF PAIN AND SUFFERENCE REQUESTED FOR RUNNING AT YOUR PERSONAL POTENTIAL SPEED.
Sometimes we read some post where the poster ask WHY Kenyans run so easy and slowly during recovery days, thinking this is the secret. Yes, it's one of the secrets, but is the reason because they are able to run VERY MUCH FASTER THAN EUROPEANS AND AMERICAN WHEN WE SPEAK ABOUT LONG RUN.
Too many times Mzungus (White Caucasic Runners) forget that, for running <LONG and FAST, they need to be FRESH in their muscle and their mind, and for being fresh they have to reduce the speed, considering REGENERATION not as a training session, but as a RECOVERY session.
Running already a little bit faster the recovery, NEVER there is real regeneration, and that's the reason because European and American normally don't use in training LONG AND FAST RUN, with distances till 40 km at a speed already 95-98% of the Marathon Speed.
So, for american and european runners, going Kenya or Ethiopia is a CULTURAL FACTOR, and they can change their mind.
But, of course, here everybody wants to speak about Kenya, Ethiopia, doping, if it's easy find EPO, and a lot of other stupidities, without knowing the most important factor, that is the AGGRESSIVE MENTALITY IN TRAINING OF ALL THE ATHLETES, fighting for bettering their lives, who well know that, idf don't train at the higher level of volume and intensity, NEVER can be competitive and NEVER can earn some money for improving the quality of their life.
And ask yourself because many athletes of medium international level, after their first experience in Kenya for 3-4 months, every year want to go again in Iten or Kaptagat : because, till when they are interested in improving their level, there can find widespread motivation and increase their self confidence, having a way of living very simple, without dispersions, and focused to the athletic performance as main goal, something difficult to reproduce while in Europe or in the States.
lol
Kenya/Ethiopia have always been vacation doping destinations for Kenyans/Ethiopians and all the rest.
Ofcourse one would tie in a family visit on a doping vacation. Likewise, they'd tie in a family visit on a non-doping vacation visit too.
We are all racists :)
Mo Farah being the most popular of recent memory to take a training doping vacation to chill with the local homies, get fast, sip some tea by the wayside and hook up with Pharma Freddy. This sting never gets old :)
https://honestsport.com/2017/08/11/revealed-sir-mo-farahs-training-partner-filmed-buying-epo-kenya/
THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
Out-of-competition testing is improving in these countries — specifically Kenya. Ironically, Steph Bruce's evidence of the problem (Kenyans getting caught by the AIU) is also a little slice of evidence that it might be heading in the right direction.
And virtually no busts in Ethiopia. No reason to lump them with Kenya’s issues as they get solved. I would encourage Americans and Europeans looking to train in East Africa to go there. They’re very hospitable.
Farah's arrogance/hubris to joke it up with dime bag Freddie on camera is all I need to reference when he puts one of his "I'm clean" protests. ok, stuff to do, buh bye.
poiuuu wrote:
Why would any athlete go to East Africa, the doping Mecca of the world, if you don't want to juice yourself?
Steph is absolutely right.
People are coming all over the world to dope in Flagstaff . The Web master for the NAZ elite had to scramble to delete Chip's profile when he got busted for drugs .
Renato Canova wrote:
Raising the question is a positive thing to do, but after you have to listen to the answer.
I have many Europeans and one Australian training in Iten with me. Nobody goes Iten because there is the possibility to HIDE for doping themselves.
One of the athletes is Sondre Moen, that from when accepted to spend the most part of his training in altitude (not only in Kenya, but almost 3 months per year in Sestriere in Italy), moved all his PB : 3000m from 8'01" to 7'52", 5000m from 13'31" to 13'20", 10000m from 28'31" to 27'24", HM from 62'18" to 59'48", and Marathon from 2:12 to 2:05:48.
Another is Philipp Pflieger from Germany. He started with me only at the beginning of January, is an athlete with a PB of 2:12:50 in 2015, and till now moved his PB in HM from 63:14 in 2018 to 62:50 in Barcelona two weeks ago. He is not one of the top in the World, but in two months already had in Iten tests OOC on Tuesday 14th Jan, Tuesday 28th Jan and Tue 11th Feb, plus the test in competition after Barcelona (16th Feb).
What you don't know, or, if you know, don't understand, is that for training at maximal level, everybody needs to have MODELS and EXAMPLES, and to live in an ambience all connected with training. When you are in Iten, and you go for the first session at 6 in the morning, you can meet several groups of runners (every group including some Marathon runner from 2:06 and 2:10) made of 60-100 units, and some time you can join them, understanding their mentality in training, something very different from the mentality of European or the average of US runners.
Good evening Renato! :) Of course most European and American runners going to Kenya and Ethiopia will do that because they are convinced they will get better runners by doing that, not because more easy to get drugs. But we can`t completely ignore the fact that there is a small minority of runners who are tempted to take a forbidden shortcut , a shortcut that is easier done where it`s easier to get the stuff needed.The last years we have seen some real world class runners training in Kenya busted , and your previous statement that EPO doesn`t work on Kenyan world class runners is of course one of your most controversial statements.
You still believe that Moen mainly improved because of staying at high altitude for longer periods than before and doing "proper" training? Moen told me in a chat some months before you started to coach him that he had been in Kenya for training more than twenty times before.When I analyze the training he did before you and the training with you, it strikes me that the crucial difference was mainly at an increased speed in the factors that determine the result.
And at last in this comment, You really don`t have to train in an ambience all connected with training to become one of the worlds best runners, that`s just a myth !)))
- COACH J.S -
Kenyan born American wrote:
Her tweet is racist and tells us a little more about what kind of person she is. Paul Chelimo tried to explain to her that many of us return to see family but she never backed off. She will always be hated within our community.
@Steph_Rothstein
There’s an undeniable trend with the East African countries testing positive. Word of caution to US athletes who go over to Ethiopia and Kenya to train. It doesn’t look good. And basing our rankings and performances against world lists is becoming increasingly convoluted.
Nothing she said is racist, and all of it is accurate.
And what community is that? Is it East African or American?
That's not racism. What is bad is nation-switchers. It's bad for Americans to lose their national team spots to foreigners.
Am I did only one that thinks Sally Kipyego is dirty? The agents are connected to doping.
Also as someone born from another country. I always think that people who claim racism doesn't have a clue what real racism is. Sure you put up with some prejudice here and there in the US, but it's probably the few places in the world that you can make it independent of your race. Anyone who thinks else wise is just brainwashed by media.
sbeefyk2 wrote:
Wait..... wrote:
You guys think its easier to get PEDs in Kenya than in the US? LOL
We are the richest country in the world, you think a 3rd world country has more drugs than here?
We cheat in every sport (Basketball, football, baseball), but in running we are clean?
We have had kids go to Mexico and come back with cheap drugs for years. Including HS kids.
We just had a mid 40s man make an Olympic team, no one is questioning that? US is clean?
There are more high level runners in East Africa than anywhere else in the world. Of course you will have more people testing positive. They have a bigger pool to test from. No one is questioning those who assimilate into the US. We just assume they have a genetic and training advantage when they beat us once they live here. We look for excuses.
The Kenya talent that comes to the US for college is the C and D talent. Now and then a B talent comes. That talent just took, 4th and 5th in the men's trials. Also look at the Army team who has people like Bor who I believe was only a 1 time all-american running 13:12 indoors.
Also saying go to East Africa and we will think you are dirty is the same thing as saying if your Muslim we will question if you are a terrorist.
Bruce, Willis, Goucher are just trying hard to get on Fox News to stay reliant, keep beating up on the poor.
This guy went a little off the rails in his rant, but he's correct. You can get anything you want in America, if you are willing to pay for it. This includes EPO, 13 year old sex partners, any number of illicit drugs, and anything else your heart wants. I suspect the same applies to Kenya. Money talks in the world. I would say you can EPO with equal ease in both countries. Especially when you have highly connected, wealthy agents doing the transactions.
Why do you always post such useless garbage? Please buy some EPO in the US and document it. We will wait patiently for you to report back the results.
I seriously doubt the Kenyans or Ethiopians really care what the 6th best American thinks. The old adage “ Wolves don’t care about the opinions of sheep “ is applicable.
Did Tuliamuk or Kipyego pull an East Africa vacation before the trials?
I remember when Sam Chelenga was outspoken against Africa and this same group turned against him and he had to close all of his social media. Can you imagine if Steph Bruce had this happen? Her social media is her lifeblood. It’s all she has left.
Hounddogharrier wrote:
I seriously doubt the Kenyans or Ethiopians really care what the 6th best American thinks. The old adage “ Wolves don’t care about the opinions of sheep “ is applicable.
This is true.
Isn't Stephanie and Ben managed by Josh Cox, who trained in Kenya and with Gabriele Rosa? Is this not a "good look"? He/she who casts the first stone...
beefy is a waste of space wrote:
Why do you always post such useless garbage? Please buy some EPO in the US and document it. We will wait patiently for you to report back the results.
Did you watch Bryan Fogel in Icarus?
Did you watch Marc Daly in the BBC/Panorama's Catch Me If You Can? (OK -- not US)
These were well documented worldwide.
Do you remember that Lance Armstrong interview where he said he actually wanted to start doping his whole team, but the local corner drug store told us it was wrong? Foiled again. That night he was in tears, finally realizing his dream of 7 yellow jerseys were shattered.
How about this famous Victor Conte quote -- "we wanted to dope our sprinters, because all of our theoretical research says EPO would be the most powerful drug for sprinters, but after going to the first local pharmacy and getting rejected, we had to scrap the whole project and go back to the drawing board."
Sorry I can't find back those links.
Access to doping doesn't seem to be a serious obstacle for those who want it.
Sanitize your mouse wrote:
https://vimeo.com/182051302
Quick you need to delete this damning clip or my good friend Renato will erupt. He doesn't like Seppelt and calls him "fake news" and in a huff disappears from these boards for 3 months.
Btw the coach of an Olympic champion says that athletes that appear from nowhere and are suddenly doing fast times are dopers. Hmmmmm Kiptum, Rhonex Kipruto, Emmanuel Korir?