Is it possible, does it exist ?
Is it possible, does it exist ?
Dunno but 2:30 isn't that fast, relatively speaking. There might be somebody.
Gotta think Lagat could have gone sub 11 on a flying start....
epicTCK wrote:
Gotta think Lagat could have gone sub 11 on a flying start....
It is has to be out of the blocks for the OP's question to make sense.
At different points in time: definitely possible. Anybody who has sufficient neuromuscular abilities to run that fast can train their cardiovascular system sufficiently to run a sub 2:30 marathon if they chose.
At the same time is much more questionable.
Wuy wrote:
Is it possible, does it exist ?
That space between "exist" and the question mark (let alone the thread itself) gives it away immediately.
Hi Jan, aka SUPERIOR COACH JS!
- Magic Trolling!! -
hehe )))
What makes you think this is even possible? I have no doubt that someone like Rudisha could have run sub 11 and sub 2:30, but at the same time.... this would be extremely difficult even for the most talented. Regardless of your top speed, you NEED to be powerful out of the blocks to run sub 11, and I'm not sure that would be possible subsequent to the training required for a sub 2:30.. There is a reason no one can find an example of this. There is a physiological barrier, in terms of neurological conditioning, muscle fiber conversions and total muscle that creates too much of a differential. You would have to find the most talented 400/800 runners in the world and train them extremely specifically for such a performance. This has not, and likely will not happen.
Impossible at the same time.
Rupp.
at which point in time wrote:
At different points in time: definitely possible. Anybody who has sufficient neuromuscular abilities to run that fast can train their cardiovascular system sufficiently to run a sub 2:30 marathon if they chose.
At the same time is much more questionable.
yup
Please no more posters with rolling 100m times.
I am sure a young Steve Ovett could have done both at the same time. Ovett as a young teenager was a guy who participated in XC and focused on 200m & 400m. I am sure Billy Konchellah could have done both at the same time. I am sure James Robinson could have done both at the same time. I am sure Earl Jones could have done both at the same time. Maybe a young Sebastian Coe could have done both at the same time. Maybe a young Dr. Thomas Wessinghage could have done both at the same time. Maybe a young Steve Holman could have done both at the same time.
Sub-1:47 800m and sub-3:50 1500m, seems to be what is needed to make sub-11 100m & sub-2:30 Marathon likely.
I think the limiting factor here is the societal pressure to find the best athlete in each individual discipline. The world gives very little incentive to be both a second tier 100m dash runner and Marathon runner. To accomplish this it would depend solely on the individuals motivation without prize money + having the talent to pull it off. To summarize, it is possible for someone to run 10.99 100m and 2:30 in marathon but no one will do it because we don’t value that as a society.
With specific training it is definitely possible.
The problem is by training to do both, the person would probably lose in the other category, or more rightly, wouldn't progress as much as he could.
For example :
A 10.90 sec runner who wants to also train to be a 2:30 marathon runner, will need to incorporate training sessions dedicated to the Marathon, which will take on its training to be a better 100m runner.
I mean statistically, I think it is reasonable to assume that there are probably at least 10% of sub-11sec runner who would have the talent necessary to also run 2:30 marathon with a good training.
It's just the incentive is not there.
Starno wrote:
I mean statistically, I think it is reasonable to assume that there are probably at least 10% of sub-11sec runner who would have the talent necessary to also run 2:30 marathon with a good training.
It's just the incentive is not there.
That seems to be a common belief among LRers; running well at distances is only about training and has nothing to do with natural ability. Just running decently at 800 meters would be difficult for most 11.00 sprinters. A 2:30 marathon is out of the question.
at which point in time wrote:
At different points in time: definitely possible. Anybody who has sufficient neuromuscular abilities to run that fast can train their cardiovascular system sufficiently to run a sub 2:30 marathon if they chose.
At the same time is much more questionable.
How close do the two races have to be considered "at the same time"? If you are talking about within a week of each other, it is certainly highly unlikely. If someone trains for sprint, runs a 10.99, and then immediately starts marathon training, is it considered "different points in time"?
Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:
at which point in time wrote:
At different points in time: definitely possible. Anybody who has sufficient neuromuscular abilities to run that fast can train their cardiovascular system sufficiently to run a sub 2:30 marathon if they chose.
At the same time is much more questionable.
How close do the two races have to be considered "at the same time"? If you are talking about within a week of each other, it is certainly highly unlikely. If someone trains for sprint, runs a 10.99, and then immediately starts marathon training, is it considered "different points in time"?
In my opinion: a long time, and even then it would be psychologically difficult.
I think some of the other posters have the right idea that the shortest gap is likely to be for a truly great middle distance runner. But it is questionable whether anybody has ever been in shape to have done it. Ovett for example ran a half marathon in 1:05.38 in 1977 so could certainly have managed a sub 2:30 marathon around that time, and could do a 21.7 200m as a teenager, but it seems very unlikely that he was ever in shape to do both at the same time. Coe possibly had the speed for a sub 11 but definitely never had the endurance for a sub 2:30 marathon. One can conjecture that it might have been possible if they had done such and such differently, but that it is different from actually having been able to have done it.
at which point in time wrote:
Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:
How close do the two races have to be considered "at the same time"? If you are talking about within a week of each other, it is certainly highly unlikely. If someone trains for sprint, runs a 10.99, and then immediately starts marathon training, is it considered "different points in time"?
In my opinion: a long time, and even then it would be psychologically difficult.
I think some of the other posters have the right idea that the shortest gap is likely to be for a truly great middle distance runner. But it is questionable whether anybody has ever been in shape to have done it. Ovett for example ran a half marathon in 1:05.38 in 1977 so could certainly have managed a sub 2:30 marathon around that time, and could do a 21.7 200m as a teenager, but it seems very unlikely that he was ever in shape to do both at the same time. Coe possibly had the speed for a sub 11 but definitely never had the endurance for a sub 2:30 marathon. One can conjecture that it might have been possible if they had done such and such differently, but that it is different from actually having been able to have done it.
Keep in mind that Coe and Ovett were genetic freaks. Their combination of fast and slow twich muscles is extremely rare.
SDSU Aztec wrote:
That seems to be a common belief among LRers; running well at distances is only about training and has nothing to do with natural ability. Just running decently at 800 meters would be difficult for most 11.00 sprinters. A 2:30 marathon is out of the question.
But the point is that if one spent years working on one's cardiovascular system (running, cycling, whatever) and continued to keep the neuromuscular system active by running fast (not as fast as sub 11, but fast) regularly, it is obvious that one could do a 2:30 marathon. It would be tough, and many sub 11 sprinters would not have the right psychology for it, but it can obviously be done.
Almost any male with any natural ability for sports and some mental strength can run at close to 4:00 per km pace with a reasonably well-developed cardiovascular system and running a couple of hours a week. To get from that to a sub 2:30 marathon one just needs to run a lot and have enough natural speed for the pace not to feel too fast. A sub 11 obviously has the latter.