Moderation question: When if ever should we allow the discussion of someone else's body/appearance on LetsRun?

Guy runners wear 2 inch shorts and females wear bun huggers and sports bras. Seems to be dissociative if you couldn't talk about their bodies. As athletes, you flaunt your body all the time as seen in any race photos. Are we all SJWs now?

allow it at all times? ppl need to learn to be less sensitive.

If it is relevant to athletic performance, I don’t see why there would be any issue to have civil discussion about body image. Reading Jamin sexualizing and obsessing over questionably-legal Eastern European girls every other day is far from relevant.

Maintain a sensible general policy across the forum (no outright abuse, libel, etc) and leave it at that. No need to get intersectional about it. That way madness lies.

It would be tough to make definitive rules used to police comments regarding an athlete's appearance. Posting that an athlete looks heavy or needs to drop a few pounds to return to good form....as with Cain and Bekele....should be allowed.

I'd also think comments regarding athletes who clearly attempt to play up their looks themselves leaves them open for comment.

However comments regarding an athletes looks with no connection to their athletic ability probably should be moderated off the forum.

T&F actually consists of exposing your body and its abilities (and sometimes deficiencies) to public scrutiny. There is no reason why it should not be discussed by such public - however, and that's a different take from what Bun Huggers stated above, in terms of athletics only. And in a civilized manner. But this applies to all public discussion regardless of the topic.

If a discussion on weight/appearance is actually helpful (ie., sought) rather than just gratuitous or objectifying. Every distance runner knows that weight matters. What does anyone gain by unsolicited comments about weight? Do people think, for example, that Mary Cain doesn’t know weight is an important factor for performance and injury? Seeing a photo of her and commenting on her appearance isn’t helpful or informative, it’s just gratuitous at best and potentially harmful- to her and other runners who read the negative comments and are struggling.

Unless someone is actually seeking advice on their weight, form, weight loss, weight gain I think any comment on appearance should mostly be kept off the boards. I think the potential harm outweighs any potential good; noting that I can’t really see any good in random strangers giving their unprofessional opinion on weight based on a photo of someone they do not know personally.

People who have had a documented history of eating disorders should be off limits.

censorship of a subject isn’t going to make things improve, it not going to suddenly alter the mindset of ignorant elitist. In fact it will most likely encourage more of the same.

The discussion should pretty much always be allowed.

The situation with Cain makes almost no sense.

Alberto Salazar is accused of:

- Planning to circumvent anti-doping controls (Testosterone Gel experiments)

- Potentially Encouraging falsification of medical data (Dr. Brown)

- Having athletes use prescription medications that they lack a prescription for (Goucher)

- Transfusing substances beyond allowable limits (L-Carnitine in Magness)

Yet somehow, what people complain about is that he tells a runner she needs to lose weight, which is an actual LEGAL method of performance enhancement??

Again, I posted this on the other threads, but in every other sport, coaches rip apart, scream at, and insult athletes in front of a live audience of thousands, and a televised audience of possibly millions. In fact, some coaches even get into physical altercations with athletes from opposing teams, or even their own teams.

A running coach tells a runner that she needs to lose weight in private, and somehow it's too much?

There are pros in every sport who clearly don't take their conditioning seriously. See Kelvin Benjamin, Jarred Dudley, etc. Being a professional doesn't automatically mean you have your 'ish together, contrary to common belief. I personally see it strictly as a performance metric, no different than any other, and if I were competing at a high level I sure hope people would keep me honest on my behavior, especially if it were negatively effecting my performance.

So my gut instinct in these situations is to critique the athlete. After all, I was chubby at one point and then decided to change it, so guess what? I went ahead and did. No crying, no awful mental state or depression. It's like David Goggins says, ''If you're fat, just say you're fat. Cut the BS and do something about it.'' BUT clearly I'm missing something here, because many, many people feel otherwise, and it has become this massive, sensitive topic.

Why is this subject so touchy? I clearly don't understand it, but there MUST be a reason, so until I understand the roots of it I'm trying to learn empathy and refrain from posting anything related to the subject. That being said, its definitely a slippery slope- you ban criticism related to weight, next up is race results,, hair, gear, attire, any number of things everyone already pokes fun at on these boards.

No one would have commented on her physical appearance had she not worn an outfit exposing her mid section.

As long as comments are not derogatory or mean spirited, it should be ok.

I'm not sure this has to be all that hard. I would suggest the following blanket policies, both because I think they are warranted and also because they remove ambiguity from how the policies are enforced (i.e., are black and white):

1) No discussion about HS athletes whatsoever. Obviously it's more sensitive with girls, but just make it a blanket policy for both HS boys and girls. For HS athletes, especially girls, I get that in many cases a comment could be a well-meaning (or not) "she is too thin and looks unhealthy"; frankly, that's probably more likely than a discussion of "she needs to drop a few pounds." But these are young, HS athletes and I don't think these forum discussions ever go well. Better to ban them in reference to specific individuals.

2) No discussion about collegiate athletes whatsoever. This is more gray since the athletes are legal adults, but in my view they're still young amateurs and it's not appropriate to rake their bodies over the coals on the message boards, regardless of too heavy or too thin. Particularly in college, if it's a case of too thin, the coaches or others are well-aware of it and it doesn't need to be a topic of discussion. General discussion, sure, but not naming particular athletes.

3) Pros are totally fair game, though of course it needs to be performance or health oriented and not about their attractiveness. I don't mean to be callous, but if the athlete has gone pro and is, say, 19, so be it as he or she is a pro. And, yes, based on the photo I think we all know Mary Cain would need to drop a few pounds to get closer to the elite level. That's just the reality of the sport and to me it's fair point of discussion in her case as a pro. On the flip side, I have a hard time imagining Klosterhalfen is at a healthy weight and I cringe when I see her race, and I also cringe when my teenage daughters see her in races because I worry about the subtle messages that her success could imply. To me it may actually be beneficial to permit discussion of the concerns about Klosterhalfen's weight for the reasons that Wejo mentioned.

You cannot make an objective list and set of rules.

It's common sense and is subjective.

The high school distinction make sense.

Some would argue -oh people discuss whether a high school football star has the body type to a be a pro but often if it's going to be a high school star on here it's going to be a girl and that is a whole different issues involved.

I couldn't believe it when Robert called me 15 minutes ago and said, "should we allow discussions of weight on LetsRun?" He had not read the Cain thread of anything. I told him about this thread.

Shows identical twins really think alike.

Attempting to boil down Cain's complaints about the NOP to merely "being told to lose weight" is intellectually dishonest.

I don't know where the line is. But imagine if Aaron Rodgers gains 20 pounds in the offseason and goes from great to bad. Every news outlet would think it is okay to discuss his weight gain. It wouldn't be taboo. And it is a larger factor in running.

The Floyd wrote:

2) No discussion about collegiate athletes whatsoever. This is more gray since the athletes are legal adults, but in my view they're still young amateurs and it's not appropriate to rake their bodies over the coals on the message boards, regardless of too heavy or too thin. Particularly in college, if it's a case of too thin, the coaches or others are well-aware of it and it doesn't need to be a topic of discussion. General discussion, sure, but not naming particular athletes.

I'm not sure if I agree with this. My main concern is that there have been a bunch of abusive college programs and that sort of behavior becomes normalized unless it's discussed critically. Can those issues can be raised somehow without discussing individual athletes? I'm not sure. Gotta go.

Predictor wrote:

That pretty much sums it up for her although not for other athletes. And remember that she asked to rejoin. Her complaints began after Salazar was in trouble. Seems she likes to stay on the popular side of things. She may be the most talented runner in the US but is not willing to get her body to the fitness level of Coburn, Simpson, or Houlihan. It is obvious that they spend hours in the gym.

No, it doesn't sum it up. She acknowledged that weight is an important factor in distance running. It was the means by which they were trying to force her to a weight coupled with the culture of the program. Not just someone telling her to lose weight.