Kid slaps teachers hand, calls him a ‘cracker’ - Teacher is arrested

facing facts wrote:

And you are willing to admit schools with a majority of black populations have on average more discipline problems.

the reason people call you racist for posting things like this is because you appear to be implying a causative link here.

But you already knew that...

That's why you post it.

This thread has spiraled out of control.

I thought when I posted on it (my post was removed somehow) there were only a couple of page but now I see 6? And my post was today. Either I didn't see a bunch of pages or posts or something was up with our database (I know we were having problems with duplicate posts, etc) so not sure what was going on.

I can see why posters would be upset with this thread.

I 'm not sure LetsRun is the place to have these discussions where people are making what I think are misinformed generalizations about race, but I'm generally not for just shutting down discussion. I'm going to leave my post up for a little while but may remove the whole thread.

Only somewhat related is schools now are deciding if it's better to allow students to discuss genetics and race rather than to not allow discussion. But in that instance the discussion is being led by scientists. Here it's just a free for all but I'm still not sure removing content someone doesn't like is the best way to handle it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/07/us/race-biology-genetics.html

You can see what happens in this thread when a few posters start dominating a thread. We maybe should limit how many posts someone can do in a 24 hour period. We had worried more about astroturfing than someone with the same name posting over and over.

Hi Rojo! wrote:

facing facts wrote:

And you are willing to admit schools with a majority of black populations have on average more discipline problems.

the reason people call you racist for posting things like this is because you appear to be implying a causative link here.

But you already knew that...

That's why you post it.

The first quoted post is a perfect example. The guy is racist and trying to imply a causative link. But is it best to just delete it or let people refute his logic.

what exactly is the discussion that you thought would be generated by the OPs' post, especially when titled the way it was?

I mean, it's kind of telling that he doesn't even have a main point, it's unfocused rambling, pretending to be about a few different things ...is it about classroom disciple? Is it about racial slurs? Is it about violence against students? Against teachers? Is it about the state of our schools?

If it was actually a post about any of those things it would have focused on them and made a point...instead it was meandering ramble just trying to get in as many dog-whistle points as possible.

the main point was race-baiting.

This is not the kind of posts that generates real discussion. Why pretend that it is?

wejo wrote:

Hi Rojo! wrote:

the reason people call you racist for posting things like this is because you appear to be implying a causative link here.

But you already knew that...

That's why you post it.

The first quoted post is a perfect example. The guy is racist and trying to imply a causative link. But is it best to just delete it or let people refute his logic.

Refuting his logic doesn't really work when he's not interested in logic. Do you really think someone that makes a post like that is trying to engender an honest discussion? It's trolling, pure and simple. It's one thing to allow obvious trolling, but when it's based on race-baiting and dog-whistling.....it's not a good look.

On threads like this I would look closely at the OP's post and decide if it's a real issue that is worth discussing even though controversial (transgender athletes etc) .....or just random race bating dog whistle attention seeker clogging up the boards. If it's later, just delete the post.

It's not like there aren't going to be enough genuine posts about race and gender issues actually related to running (east African genetics, xxy etc etc) for people to discuss.....might as well toss the garbage ones away from start. we don't need them.

It's not that race should be off-limits, but it should be off-limits for needless trolling posts. we don't need that crap.

Nobel laureate Milton Friedman called the minimum wage the most anti-black law on the books.

Allow me to elaborate on why the minimum wage is economically regressive. The minimum wage is a form of price floor. A price floor implies that a good or service is prohibited from trading below a given price level. In layman's terms, for the labor market, a price floor on labor implies that it is illegal for anyone to exchange his labor below that threshold. Whenever a price floor is implemented, whether on goods or on labor, we are guaranteed only one effect: whereas any price floor too low will prove inconsequential, a price floor too high will cause a shortage. Of course, in the labor market, given the nuances between varying forms of labor, any price floor thereupon will prove too high, thereby causing a shortage: as evidenced by the law of supply and demand, the demand for jobs will predictably exceed the supply of jobs. This is one of the reasons why black teen unemployment is higher today than it was 70 years ago. Ironically, the same camp pushing for higher minimum wages simultaneously promotes higher levels of inflation. Every true economist knows you can't have it both ways, but politicians, activists and their acolytes readily abandon reason for the purposes of posturing. I would strongly encourage you to read Thomas Sowell's "Basic Economics" and Henry Hazlitt's "Economics in One Lesson." These works comprehensively articulate the history and philosophy of this subject and others related to it. The history of the minimum wage is fascinating, everywhere serving the interests of politicians, unions and lobbyists at the disadvantage of low-skilled (and immigrant or even female) workers, the latter of whom represent the very members of society whom the measure purport to assist. Thank you for sharing.

There’s racist stuff here, sure, but overall a lively discussion. Maybe I’ve grown too accustomed to the Internet, but these issues are hard to discuss in person. I’ve been called names & forced to clarify my position.

I’m glad it hasn’t been pulled down yet, wouldn’t weep for it, though. Racists exist in significant numbers & we wouldn’t know how they felt, other than their posts on LetsRun, strange as that sounds. Plus most people, certainly including me, are sometimes racist without fully realizing it.

jesseriley wrote:

There’s racist stuff here, sure, but overall a lively discussion. Maybe I’ve grown too accustomed to the Internet, but these issues are hard to discuss in person. I’ve been called names & forced to clarify my position.

I’m glad it hasn’t been pulled down yet, wouldn’t weep for it, though. Racists exist in significant numbers & we wouldn’t know how they felt, other than their posts on LetsRun, strange as that sounds. Plus most people, certainly including me, are sometimes racist without fully realizing it.

Americans are the most race-sensitive people on the planet. It's ironic, really, just how delicate they are to issues of race. Meanwhile, other ethnic groups get away with racial commentary (and race-based insults or comedy) on a fairly regular basis, and no one bats an eye. Indeed, this is a staple in most parts of the world and in most cultures, but Americans have been conditioned to feel guilty for transgressions that they never personally committed, that their own ancestors never even committed.

I'll say this as well: the least racist demographic in the world is the "white" American, who's so afraid to be labeled a racist, he or she will do anything to appear "woke." He'll point his nose in the air in disgust as the rest of us "minorities" keep it real.

I hope the US tries to be multi-cultural and always tries to be better and is honest about its past. I hope we are never complacent.

jesseriley wrote:

I hope the US tries to be multi-cultural and always tries to be better and is honest about its past. I hope we are never complacent.

Is there even a single successful example of such a massive multicultural civilization? Are you suggesting that other relatively-homogenous civilizations are inferior because they lack ethnic diversity? Also, what do you mean by “its past”? If you’re implying slavery or discrimination, those institutions aren’t even remotely unique to the United States, nor to any particular ethnic group. In fact, you should study the extent of the abuse by Africans against their fellow Africans before making such an assertion. You’ll be astounded by the conditions and treatment of those who survived to tell the tale.

Mr. Sars wrote:

jesseriley wrote:

I hope the US tries to be multi-cultural and always tries to be better and is honest about its past. I hope we are never complacent.

Is there even a single successful example of such a massive multicultural civilization? Are you suggesting that other relatively-homogenous civilizations are inferior because they lack ethnic diversity? Also, what do you mean by “its past”? If you’re implying slavery or discrimination, those institutions aren’t even remotely unique to the United States, nor to any particular ethnic group. In fact, you should study the extent of the abuse by Africans against their fellow Africans before making such an assertion. You’ll be astounded by the conditions and treatment of those who survived to tell the tale.

So your argument is that since other countries in history had periods of slavery we should pretend ours never happened. Sound logic!

Our past is shaping our present and that's why people want to face it and deal with it.

Romans were (perhaps reluctantly) multicultural; Venice & other naval powers tended to be multicultural. There are many examples.

No question slavery was common at one time, but USA was relatively late in keeping it; additionally we made it a more lucrative, industrialized process over much longer distances. Some slaves in ancient Rome rose to the top. Here it’s based on skin color, which has made it more intractable.

Wow, this is the most intelligent post on this whole thread. There is a clear example of Americans being so race sensitive and "delicate to issues of race". In an earlier post after a discussion of causes of discipline issues such as economic factors I posted, "that on average a majority black school will have more discipline problems than a majority white school". I never made any racist implication here but this is a probable issue that related to this discussion.

But the reaction for making this statement that apparently is taboo and that never should be spoken was that it was a RACIST statement? Now who is seeing racism where there is not racism. Its clearly not racist so it has to be attacked as IMPLYING racism. Implying.......are people projecting here? Wejo jumps in and says that statement should be refuted or deleted? Seriously?

How can there be any discussion of race relations when this statement can not even be made without people getting all upset and making assumptions it must be racist.

(Some might think this post should be deleted???)

Sars you made a very wise and perceptive post.

This is the protocol as I understand it:

You can restrain a kid only if the kid presents a physical danger to you, classmates , or themselves. You can not touch the kids for any other reason.

The object for restraining the kid is to just restrain. You then work to release the kid through a series of discussions until you are sure that the kid is calm. In the meantime through teachers nearby or if you are able to co tact the office you ask for help. In most situations the SRO is called or the police are to be called also. They help or take over.

Parents are now notified and a plan is made which might include in extreme case expulsion to a special school that deals with these kind of kids. An attempt is made periodically to reintegrate the kids back into the general population again if they appear to be making progress.

All is lost and outplacement might not be possible if teachers fail to follow the protocol.

I find it interesting that a lot of teachers posting here appear to not know this.

Teachers? Or phony, magical experts & insiders who appear on every thread.

John Roberts wrote:

Flagpole said: *those comments were racist. That's a fact. Racist people make racist comments, hence, you are a racist. Stop being that.*

Facts cannot be racist so you are talking out of where the sun don't shine.

Incorrect. Hi COMMENTS were racist comments. No disputing that...THAT is what is a fact. Don't defend racists. Makes you suspect.

facing facts wrote:

It is not racist to say on average majority black schools have more behavior problems than majority white schools.

It is not racist to say black neighborhoods have more crime than majority white neighborhoods.

It's foolish and reflects a denial of reality to say otherwise. And it's hypocritical to call people racist who are honestly speaking the truth.

That guy said ALL classrooms (meaning all black classrooms), and that is NOT true and demonstrates a racist attitude. You also are making assumptions based on no knowledge. Do you have stats to back up your claims? No you don't. All BS.

jesseriley wrote:

Romans were (perhaps reluctantly) multicultural; Venice & other naval powers tended to be multicultural. There are many examples.

No question slavery was common at one time, but USA was relatively late in keeping it; additionally we made it a more lucrative, industrialized process over much longer distances. Some slaves in ancient Rome rose to the top. Here it’s based on skin color, which has made it more intractable.

Not true. Virtually the entirety of South and Central America, as well as European powers Britain, Spain and France, peacefully abolished slavery — without war — in the first sixty years of the nineteenth century. Those nations accomplished this through peaceful compensation. In the United States, many individual states had already prohibited slavery by the middle of the nineteenth century, and the United States had already outlawed the slave trade. Additionally, manumission and industrialization were already reducing the ranks of slavery in the country before it was abolished by the Thirteenth Amendment. The institution was also embraced by blacks, who, measuring in the tens of thousands, owned fellow black slaves in the United States. The United States was not, as you claim, “late in keeping it,” and the institution was not “based on skin color.” One would first have to understand the history of the Africans in Africa before remotely understanding how they ended up in the United States. Miraculously they get a pass for their transgressions purely because they’re not accentuated by ethnic differences. In the modern view, slavery and discrimination are relatively palatable so long as they’re between members of the same ethnic group. That is utter nonsense, but it helps to obscure one’s lack of historical insight with a veneer of being acceptably “woke.” Privately in your bed at night, though, you know who you really are, and you quiver with angst about being exposed as the fraud you are. Well, here’s that moment.

wejo wrote:

Hi Rojo! wrote:

the reason people call you racist for posting things like this is because you appear to be implying a causative link here.

But you already knew that...

That's why you post it.

The first quoted post is a perfect example. The guy is racist and trying to imply a causative link. But is it best to just delete it or let people refute his logic.

It's best to delete it. Unless you wish to provide a platform for racists. Which you have said repeatedly you don't want to do, but yet here we are...

It's stunning that you apparently can't or won't recognize that the only purpose for this thread to be started was race-baiting.