Regardless of the deflection attempt by the BYU professor and the Mormon Church owned Deseret News, I don’t think the IRS will like the idea of the Mormon Church using over $1 billion in tax exempt income to purchase a shopping mall.
It's the IRS's job to investigate and establish the facts, time will tell if any existing tax laws were broken.
why does a church need to buy a shopping mall? does that not strike any of the mo mos as off? why not feed some of your poor or something?
Dril wrote:
why does a church need to buy a shopping mall? does that not strike any of the mo mos as off? why not feed some of your poor or something?
same reason the tax-exempt endowments of academic institutions (like Harvard or Yale) make their investments
It is really difficult to determine if there is any wrongdoing in this or not, based on these two articles. To be fair to the reporters, this is going to involve some pretty complex tax rules and would be pretty difficult to report extensively without access to the actual tax documents. Even then it is going to be much better off in a long form venue rather than a newspaper.
There are two different issues, which I think this article does a good job identifying:
1. Churches and associated entities have to pay taxes on any property or investments that are commercial in nature. The LDS spokesman says they pay these taxes but the report seems to dispute that. Impossible to adjudicate based off of the information available.
2. Whether it is consistent with their non-profit status to retain a huge endowment without a substantial portion of it going to the purposes of the non-profit. This is both a legal and philosophical question. I think most people believe that at some level acquiring resources without expending anything on charitable/religious ventures is inconsistent with their non-profit status. The IRS believes this too, but probably has a much, much higher threshold than the general public will. They have stripped non-profits for similar reasons but it has been in quite egregious cases. Maybe this rises to that level maybe it doesn't. Hard to tell without a lot more information.
lots of tax free orgainzations wrote:
Dril wrote:
why does a church need to buy a shopping mall? does that not strike any of the mo mos as off? why not feed some of your poor or something?
same reason the tax-exempt endowments of academic institutions (like Harvard or Yale) make their investments
so that makes it morally right? shouldn't a holier-than-though church be above such antics? does the church answer the US tax laws or to what's just and correct in the eyes of the God and his son Jesus, a refugee who fought for equality and justice?
Dril wrote:
does the church answer the US tax laws or to what's just and correct in the eyes of the God and his son Jesus, a refugee who fought for equality and justice?
Both:
See the parable of the Talents
Matthew 25:14–30
"This is a sound doctrinal and financial principle taught by the Savior in the Parable of the Talents and lived by the church and its members."
https://www.deseret.com/utah/2019/12/17/21026182/mormon-lds-church-washington-post-whistleblower-irs-complaint-taxes-ensign-peakThe Mormon Church requires its members to pay 10% of their income to the Church but only gives about $4 per member to humanitarian efforts. They spent more money on a shopping mall than they’ve given in a quarter of a century in humanitarian aid.
If they interpret the parable of the talents as instruction to build wealth, then they are doing a wonderful job. However, I’m having a hard time finding any teachings from Jesus that say more effort should be put into buying shopping malls than helping the poor.
Bring ‘em Young wrote:
The Mormon Church requires its members to pay 10% of their income to the Church but only gives about $4 per member to humanitarian efforts. They spent more money on a shopping mall than they’ve given in a quarter of a century in humanitarian aid.
That 4$ dollar number is disingenuous, Latter-day Saint Charities reported in its 2018 annual report that the charity has provided more than $2.2 billion, or an average of $64.7 million a year, in 197 countries since its creation in 1985. Church membership was under 6 million in 1985. Consider that number includes inactive members, non working children, and stay at home moms. The number of tithe payers would be much less.
2.2 billion since 1985, remind me how much they spent on that shopping mall again?
Whistleblower Schmooshleblower wrote:
Bring ‘em Young wrote:
The Mormon Church requires its members to pay 10% of their income to the Church but only gives about $4 per member to humanitarian efforts. They spent more money on a shopping mall than they’ve given in a quarter of a century in humanitarian aid.
That 4$ dollar number is disingenuous, Latter-day Saint Charities reported in its 2018 annual report that the charity has provided more than $2.2 billion, or an average of $64.7 million a year, in 197 countries since its creation in 1985. Church membership was under 6 million in 1985. Consider that number includes inactive members, non working children, and stay at home moms. The number of tithe payers would be much less.
2.2 billion since 1985, remind me how much they spent on that shopping mall again?
You can do all the recalculations that you want. If you use the average amount of members over that time period, you’ll still calculate a number that shows the Mormon Church gives a pitiful amount per member to humanitarian efforts and still requires 10% of their income.
In 2016, Dallin Oaks said the church had spent a total of $1.2 billion on humanitarian efforts over the previous 30 years. The mall cost $1.4 billion, so the Church literally spent more money on a mall than it had spent on humanitarian efforts
Dril wrote:
lots of tax free orgainzations wrote:
same reason the tax-exempt endowments of academic institutions (like Harvard or Yale) make their investments
so that makes it morally right? shouldn't a holier-than-though church be above such antics? does the church answer the US tax laws or to what's just and correct in the eyes of the God and his son Jesus, a refugee who fought for equality and justice?
What's wrong with investing money?
The Mormon church has peanuts compared to the Catholic church.
Not Mormon wrote:
The Mormon church has peanuts compared to the Catholic church.
which is peanuts compared to the USA federal government
The self-proclaimed "prophet" Gordon Hinckley told (lied to) mormon "church" members that their tithes (shakedowns) were never used for investing in private enterprises. Well, he was a liar and I am so very happy that he is now suffering in the eternal fires of HELL.
Henry Marsh, the hero of BYU has perpetrated several ponzi schemes. One of his first pyramid frauds, MonaVie, stole $186 million from poor unsuspecting investors. Fraudulent business ethics is pretty much a required course at the Mormon college BYU.
Whistleblower Schmooshleblower wrote:
It's the IRS's job to investigate and establish the facts, time will tell if any existing tax laws were broken.
It's a shame they spend their resources chasing small peas like me to get $200 while billionaires and pension funds get away with big things like this.
The LDS will probably pump even more money into BYU to encourage the graduates to come up with ever more sketchy ways to put money into the pockets of the Politburo, I mean quorum of twelve and quorum of seventy and first presidency. Double down on the crime.
Anyone who is surprised to learn that the Mormon church is one big scam is a fool.
Hustlers wrote:
Anyone who is surprised to learn that the Mormon church is one big scam is a fool.
^^^this
reporting about the mormons defrauding the US shows a real flair for the obvious