On December 14 Sage Canaday raced and won a 10k in 32:36. Can he run a 2:19 marathon in Houston?

Not sure he even has a drivers license!!!

Coffee Bacon wrote:

My god..this thread is ruthless..

o

Is it though? I think you’ve had some typical LRC responses where people bash Sage about his diet, but the question itself is fair and interesting. Sage is clearly asking himself the same thing. And of all the endless threads on here with people posting “I just ran X time, will I be able to run Y on such and such a date”, this is far more interesting.

But go ahead and take Sage out of it. In general, can someone who is doing 100 mile weeks and time trials a 10k in 32:3x shape then race a sub 2:19 marathon 30 days later? Nothing ruthless about that question.

It’s a good question wrote:

Coffee Bacon wrote:

My god..this thread is ruthless..

o

Is it though? I think you’ve had some typical LRC responses where people bash Sage about his diet, but the question itself is fair and interesting. Sage is clearly asking himself the same thing. And of all the endless threads on here with people posting “I just ran X time, will I be able to run Y on such and such a date”, this is far more interesting.

But go ahead and take Sage out of it. In general, can someone who is doing 100 mile weeks and time trials a 10k in 32:3x shape then race a sub 2:19 marathon 30 days later? Nothing ruthless about that question.

Fair point..

When the mind and body is so accustomed to running 100+ mpw for 12-14 years..what's the appropriate amount 4 weeks out?

So I guess more sharpening is needed with a pretty big drop off in mileage? Sounds like he stated the same thing in the closing minute or so.

WHTaft wrote:

Disclosure: I hope Sage qualifies, I hope he runs 2:15, I hope he does so eating plants, roots, and cardboard. Best of luck to him.

With that said, I get the reasons he doesn't eat meat and I have no problem with how he chooses to eat. I am curious as to why Sage won't at least try switching things up and adding meat to his diet as it has the potential to improve performance. If I was trying to do something that didn't work the first time, I would make any and all reasonable changes (especially a change that has worked for other people). Remember, the meat-eating mountain lion will catch and kill the vegan deer every single time.

I wonder why you don't try to stop eating meat for six months to see if that can improve your performance?

Same old dog wrote:

Is it too late to call the Hansons? They coached him to 2:16 and 64 minutes. Sage is still young for the marathon game. No excuse for this serious decline.

Yes there is. Being a vegan and getting all the needed amino acids in the right ratios, and animal-only nutrients is very difficult. You can start strong on a vegan diet, but it takes its toll after a while. You can still eat a metric sh1t ton of veggies while incorporating healthy, lean meat for a more complete diet.

The number of vegans who have gone back to an omnivorous diet on Youtube is staggering, but not surprising. They all have the same complaints about the diet. Emotionally unstable, higher rates of injuries for athletes, and higher rates of acute sicknesses (colds).

If Sage was serious about the OTQ he'd do 3 things.

1. Hire a few guys to do the script writing, filming and editing for his videos just for the training period. It's a distraction.

2. Dedicate all his free time to training. Running, planning, recovery, reading, stretching, strength, drills, etc

3. Include healthy proteins into his diet. Just pescetarianism would be a huge step up.

but what do I know wrote:

If Sage was serious about the OTQ he'd do 3 things.

1. Hire a few guys to do the script writing, filming and editing for his videos just for the training period. It's a distraction.

2. Dedicate all his free time to training. Running, planning, recovery, reading, stretching, strength, drills, etc

3. Include healthy proteins into his diet. Just pescetarianism would be a huge step up.

4.) Get a coach (outside objective professional help). At the very least he should call Rojo.

number 4 "to do" wrote:

but what do I know wrote:

If Sage was serious about the OTQ he'd do 3 things.

1. Hire a few guys to do the script writing, filming and editing for his videos just for the training period. It's a distraction.

2. Dedicate all his free time to training. Running, planning, recovery, reading, stretching, strength, drills, etc

3. Include healthy proteins into his diet. Just pescetarianism would be a huge step up.

4.) Get a coach (outside objective professional help). At the very least he should call Rojo.

DID SOMEONE SAY COACH ?? )))) Sage ,I could train you to the OTQ in just 4 weeks! Some would call it MAGIC ..... but it`s not!! ))) My DUNCAN system works!! Well, not with Phil, but let`s not talk about that )))) I will take you on for free!!

- The Wizard

The real question is why is 2:19 still a trials qualifier? Didn't the olympics itself raise its standard to 2:11?

If the US can't form a good field without relaxing entry standards to well slower than the women's world record, then it's time to retire the trials and hand-pick the entrants. Obviously there are not enough good US marathoners for a trials race.

Bad Wigins wrote:

The real question is why is 2:19 still a trials qualifier? Didn't the olympics itself raise its standard to 2:11?

If the US can't form a good field without relaxing entry standards to well slower than the women's world record, then it's time to retire the trials and hand-pick the entrants. Obviously there are not enough good US marathoners for a trials race.

Yep line up 10 people & line them up to run a marathon around a track. That'll help grow the sport. Seriously this thinking is mind-boggling. All of the stories about 2:18 & 2:44 qualifiers are super inspiring/uplifting. The Trials are a road race. There is plenty of room for people with where the standards are now. The standards also keep runners in the sport and give post-collegians something to aim for. Coverage will still be on the front of the pack during the race, and nobody finishing up front is going to be thinking too hard about whoever finishes in the middle or back of the pack. You're still doing some good training to hit an OTQ.

Also Sage ran by himself on a bike path. We're reading too much into this. He still has a shot at it. I hope he gets it but he's had a good running career and will continue to.

it's a good quesiton wrote:

WHTaft wrote:

Disclosure: I hope Sage qualifies, I hope he runs 2:15, I hope he does so eating plants, roots, and cardboard. Best of luck to him.

With that said, I get the reasons he doesn't eat meat and I have no problem with how he chooses to eat. I am curious as to why Sage won't at least try switching things up and adding meat to his diet as it has the potential to improve performance. If I was trying to do something that didn't work the first time, I would make any and all reasonable changes (especially a change that has worked for other people). Remember, the meat-eating mountain lion will catch and kill the vegan deer every single time.

I wonder why you don't try to stop eating meat for six months to see if that can improve your performance?

1. I am not trying to qualify for the Olympic Trials.

2. My income has nothing to do with my running performance.

3. I like meat.

WHTaft wrote:

Disclosure: I hope Sage qualifies, I hope he runs 2:15, I hope he does so eating plants, roots, and cardboard. Best of luck to him.

With that said, I get the reasons he doesn't eat meat and I have no problem with how he chooses to eat. I am curious as to why Sage won't at least try switching things up and adding meat to his diet as it has the potential to improve performance. If I was trying to do something that didn't work the first time, I would make any and all reasonable changes (especially a change that has worked for other people). Remember, the meat-eating mountain lion will catch and kill the vegan deer every single time.

I agree. As with a lot of diet people it has become almost like a religion or article of faith at this point. He literally won't try it because he ate cheeseburgers for awhile in college and it didn't help. It's a little silly. He'll do bloodwork several times checking for minute changes in various levels but won't try switching up the one major component he has control over that he has not changed: the diet.

Having said that, at this point he also has something of a brand. Need to stay on brand. He's known as a vegan and talks about it in most of his videos. He has convinced himself that the diet is not the problem. It appears to be the hill he wants to die on.

Ironically the one way to shut all of us up would be to eat meat for 6 months and then go run a 2:20 marathon or something.

Good god, this thread IS ruthless. Shouldn't runners be supporting the dreams of other runners, not tearing them down for having a bad day?

The dude clearly had a bad race. If you've never had a terrible race, you're not a real runner. I've had awful workouts or races, only to come down with a virus the next day and then I realized that must have been what was going on. That's just one example. All sorts of stuff like that can cause a terrible race.

It happens.

People should be more encouraging.

With his focus on longer mountainous races, Sage has hovered right around that OT standard for the road marathon for a few years, now. It is totally possible that he'll get it, but he will really have to have a perfect race for it to happen. I hope get mentally and physically recovers and can get it!

semi_pro wrote:

Shouldn't runners be supporting the dreams of other runners, not tearing them down for having a bad day?

??? Why is it my job to support the dreams of other runners? My job is to support myself and to reach my own goals. We rag on Sage because he puts himself out there and profits from it. It is part of his job. With the exposure (and perks) come the criticism. It's completely fair.

WHTaft wrote:

it's a good quesiton wrote:

I wonder why you don't try to stop eating meat for six months to see if that can improve your performance?

1. I am not trying to qualify for the Olympic Trials.

2. My income has nothing to do with my running performance.

3. I like meat.

1. You are actively trying to be slower?

2. Sage doesn't get paid to run road marathons.

3. So? Maybe Sage doesn't like meat. What's with the double standard?

I’m going to be honest, with Sages clean running style I bet if he rocked a pair of next % that he could run 2:17:30 without much issue, it sucks that shoes are such a factor nowadays.

it's a good question wrote:

3. So? Maybe Sage doesn't like meat. What's with the double standard?

It's not a double standard, it is not natural to be a vegan. Humans are meant to eat meat.

The very least Sage can do is drink some animal milk, but he won't be cause he doesn't have his head on right. As a workaround, Sage should drink human breast milk since it will have all the nutrients he is lacking.

Surely Sage can't object to drinking human breast milk since he drank that from his mother as a baby. It is all natural and the way God intended.

it's a good quesiton wrote:

WHTaft wrote:

Disclosure: I hope Sage qualifies, I hope he runs 2:15, I hope he does so eating plants, roots, and cardboard. Best of luck to him.

With that said, I get the reasons he doesn't eat meat and I have no problem with how he chooses to eat. I am curious as to why Sage won't at least try switching things up and adding meat to his diet as it has the potential to improve performance. If I was trying to do something that didn't work the first time, I would make any and all reasonable changes (especially a change that has worked for other people). Remember, the meat-eating mountain lion will catch and kill the vegan deer every single time.

I wonder why you don't try to stop eating meat for six months to see if that can improve your performance?

I ate no meat for 14 years and it only ended my running career at 22 (restarted successfully once I became omnivore again) and landed me in the hospital a couple of times in my late 20s. I consider Sage's longevity as a vegan runner as actually quite remarkable (assuming he hasn't "cheated" the diet), despite his overall lack of improvement since college.

why would we do that wrote:

semi_pro wrote:

Shouldn't runners be supporting the dreams of other runners, not tearing them down for having a bad day?

??? Why is it my job to support the dreams of other runners? My job is to support myself and to reach my own goals. We rag on Sage because he puts himself out there and profits from it. It is part of his job. With the exposure (and perks) come the criticism. It's completely fair.

There is a very big difference between not wanting to support other runners and being actively unsupportive . At least be kindly critical if you really have to point out someone else's problems. Just because you post something online doesn't mean that you've giving out the right to be torn down by any jerk with an internet connection.

semi_pro wrote:

There is a very big difference between not wanting to support other runners and being actively unsupportive . At least be kindly critical if you really have to point out someone else's problems. Just because you post something online doesn't mean that you've giving out the right to be torn down by any jerk with an internet connection.

In general he's only being torn down about his diet, if that even. That's not new and it's not even really about him, just the old vegan vs. meat debate that comes up often and he will often chime in. The discussion about if he can qualify is a discussion he started and propagates. With the latest piece of training info, similar to the post of Walmsley's training week, people can speculate about if he has a chance to qualify. I'm not sure why some people are getting all sensitive about it. Discussing if he can qualify is not controversial, it was started by him, and he posts actual data that people can use to support their opinion.

What is interesting about your supposed concern for other runners is that unlike this thread, Mary Cain was actually bashed pretty hard with her 33rd place finish thread and you didn't show up there to defend her. Why is that?