Frats and Running - A serious answer for the kid...

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good post, i dont think that frat life down south is very typical of what is elsewhere around the country, (i've heard its A LOT rougher especially during pledging.

The suggestion to wait until sophmore year to rush is a good one though.

The first people I met when I stepped onto campus were fraternity guys, and I have not once wished that it had not been so. Rush at my school (for fraternities, not sororities) is during the first part of first semester, and most people pledge their freshman year.

Pledging was an exciting time, but never once were any of us made to do anything hazardous. Several of my pledge brothers have never had a drink, a decision that is not questioned.

As for running, I achieved many new things this year. (Yes, I'm still slow, but I am progressing.) My brothers have been supportive throughout, even to the point of scheduling events around my racing schedule.

I don't know if the stereotypes are well-founded or not. Speaking from my own limited experience, I would say to find a group of guys whom you trust and don't believe that all "frats" are created equal.

I second the idea that if you have a good, large team, they are your fraternity. They are your clan, and they were for me. This doesn't mean you can't have fun, it just has to be much more structured to take into account the important parts of the season.

Any coach that lets scholarship athletes piss away seasons because of a fraternity is a downright fool. If I were your coach (Fratty), I would have told you that you could choose the frat or the team, not both. That is exactly what my coach told me and I wasn't even a scholarship athlete.

The whole idea of the scholarship kind of boils down to a contract. That you will do your best to represent the team, barring injury and such unfortunate events. You undertook a mission(fratting) that knowingly went against the contract, you should have been canned.

dunno,

Coaches cannot really do that. A lot of frats are chosen by athletes as a way to bolster resumes, make connections, etc. I see what you are saying, but that is impossible for a coach to do. I was a decent runner, he wasn't going to throw his top runner off the team. I didn't have a great sophmore season, but I was still a threat in the conference. He would have been an idiot, and where do you draw the line for frats, some are racially based, some are academically based, you cannot just can an athlete due to a university sposored group that he/she wants to join.

I agree that the team is better than any frat, in fact, the team is a fraternity. They were mine as well. If you read the entire original post, you will see that I came to that on my own terms rather quickly. I knew who my friends were. I knew who was looking out for my best interests. A coach will have nothing but resentment if he doesn't let his athletes figure that out on their own.

I could see a coach being able to make a rule with scholarship athletes. I mean that's the same thing as a work contract. Coach pays you this much for your "work", you abide by his rules, etc.

I disagree that a team is necessarily better than a frat. In my experience, the runners were basically the same thing you're accusing the frats of being: shallow, judgemental, cliquish, etc. I mean the team social life was dictated by 4 or 5 guys and if you didn't fit their mold and laugh at their inside jokes then you weren't accepted.

College teams are not HS...coaches can and do ban frats from the team.

We had several people on my team pledge. Not a single runner who joined a frat ever broke another PR once they started pledging. We had 2 freshman one year who ran 4th and 6th on varsity. They pledged, and the next year the slower one did not travel and the faster one ran 7th at best.

Running fast and hard takes focus, and anything that detracts from that focus will slow you down...be it frats, getting a job, married, kids, etc. You only have so much energy to spread around.

disagree. wrote:In my experience, the runners were basically the same thing you're accusing the frats of being: shallow, judgemental, cliquish, etc.

Did I accuse the frats of that? Or did you?

I was in one, and still hang with a few of the guys. I am CLOSER with my running buddies.

it was a general comment to everyone, not necessarily to you. I just replied to the last thread I think.

Between the 2 threads on this topic most people assume that the runners are sure things as far as great friends go, whereas the frat guys are just a bunch of jerk partiers. Although often true, I was pointing out that in my personal experience it was not even close to being true.

the reason they want u to join is b/c they want more friends and your money. if they were really your brothers they would not care if your in the frat or not. if you let ppl pressure u into something you know is not the best possible senario for your self you are weak minded a quality found in most frat f*ckers

My roommate freshman year of college ran 1:51 for the 800. Coaches were expecting great things from this guy, as was I. He was a really cool kid, but entering our sophomore year he decided to join a frat. I wasn’t too concerned because he had talent and I figured it would not affect him as much. Well, sophomore year was a big disappointment for him, as he could not come close to running as fast as he did the year prior. He spent the whole Fall quarter rushing as opposed to training which would catch up to him during the winter indoor season and later the outdoor season. It took lots of time to attend the social events and whatever else he were doing, which took his focus away from running. He later quite the team and never ran again. Another teammate qualified for D1 Nationals his freshman year, won regionals his sophomore year, then joined a frat and hasn’t performed as well ever since. This has been the pattern I have noticed with track and frats. I have nothing against frats in terms of them being jerks, actually I lots of friends who are in frats and they are cool. But if you are a serious athlete, frats will require lots of time and effort and those are things you need more of to be competitive.

bottom line is that you should pick one over the other. Doing both is dumb, I think 99 out of 100 people on these threads have said that.

Weigh out the factors, the pros and cons for each. Decide what is most important for you. Don't necessarily listen to the pro-running guys on here and automatically disregard the frat for the xc team. The xc team has potential to make you very unhappy, very unfulfilled, and extremely tired & stressed out on a daily basis. It did to me so there's one example. I can almost assure you that you will have less fun and less of a social life if you join the xc team, especially if you want to be any good at running. On the other hand, the frat has potential to make you very unfulfilled as well. Lots of guys get burnt out on the party scene by their jr or sr years and quit the frat to save some money or to focus on their studies. Or they get a girlfriend and have no need for all the hot girls and 3 ways that the frat brings in.

If it were me, I'd go with the fraternity (unless running is paying for school or if you have ridiculous talent and can make a career out of it). I was lucky enough to get a full scholarship for running so I had to run in order to attend the school. But I never had a clue why other guys who got no money ran. Sure we made memories but any fraternity would offer memories as well, probably more. Take that scholarship away from me and I'd have been in a frat, meeting girls, playing intermeurals, making job connections for the future, staying up past 10pm without worrying about it, and getting A's in all of my classes (if for no other reason than they have tons of old tests to 'study' from).

You have ONE time in your life where you have very little responsibility and no parents to hold you accountable for it. Make the most of it. If running satisfies you and can for another 4-5 years then so be it. But if other things intrigue you I suggest you drop running and allow time for them. Trust me, there will be a time when you need to move on from running no matter what these 40 yr olds on this board say. You just have to eventually.

I can't say I really agree with this. I ran in college and didnt get any money till junior and senior year, and even then it wasn't much to speak of. I dont have a problem with your choice as it would make sense for some. For others though, there is more to life than simply getting drunk and hooking up(not to imply this is all your about: it seems you understand this). Some people simply want to compete and be the best they can, and enjoy competing and training at their limits and pushing themselves to new heights more than slagging down vodka or trying to get business connections. I do agree however that you only have a very limited time in college and to make the most of it. But I wouldn't trade the thrills of training and racing along with the experiences I had with my team for a frat. To me, a joining a frat and simply forgetting running is something I couldn't have done, although your totally correct when you say at some point you wont be competitive anymore(though I disagree you have to move on from running totally; its a great way to stay fit and relax). I dont know that exact Once a runner quote, but it goes something along the lines of "we can settle down with a girl and take up tending to the lawn...or we can blaze". That seems to kind of sum up frat vs. running for me and my experience.

I wouldn't trade my college track/xc experiences for all the frat beer and drunk women in the world. You simply can't get that kind of experience any other way. i don't know what happened to the previous poster in his college career but my team was every bit as good as a frat when the occasion presented itself with parties, women, etc. but I also got to hone my running skills and travel all over the place on the school's dime. When it was time to be serious, we were. When it was time to let loose, we were legendary (even among the frats). You CAN have it all if you want it. People always say, "man you missed out on all those friday night blah blah blah". I was in CA, OR, NC, NY, MA, MI, PA, FL or wherever partying at schools all over the country saturday nights after the meet and meeting all sorts of new people. What did I actually miss out on? Those guys (and girls) are some of the best friends I'll ever have (and I didn't have to pay them) and some amazing memories I'll never forget. Ultimately, its up to you to decide what you find most important. I will agree with the previous poster about one thing and that's that you can't do both...at least not and retain your sanity.

You never pay for friends...you pay rent and for the beer and renting out bars..etc. I ran on scholarship my freshmen year transfered joined a frat and love it. It has gotten me two internships and is limitless in networking. Go with the frat I say it is a experience you wont forget and honestly which one will you still have after college? SIGMA CHI!!!!!!

yah it all depends on your experience. that's why i was saying they both had potential for good and bad. Both of these last couple of opinions had very positive running experiences, obviously. But with me, almost every runner I know lives and dies by how the workout went or how he's feeling that day. Their mood/personaility/character is just a reflection of how running is going. For me, I just can't handle something as simple as running dictating what I'm all about. I mean it's freakin running. It's not worth being a jerk to people or feeling depressed because of something like running. There's a reason why 99% of this world has absolutely no concern for it other than exercise.

Frats are more than boozing and screwing. Sure that is fun and that's why I and others have praised that part of it. When you're on a team there'll be plenty of times you wish you were doing it when you can't because of running. there will be lots of times. But most of what I would have preferred as a frat guy over a runner was just relaxation, less stress, and being 'normal'. Too often I felt held back from running whether it was having to be gone in a crappy midwest town for a weekend meet or having to go to bed by 10 so i could feel ok for 6am practice. Running trips (other than nationals) are not parties. If there are teams out there that stay in town AFTER a race then I wanna know who they are cos that's rare, except after a national meet which happends 3 times a year TOPS. Mostly you travel, go to bed early to rest for the race, then leave after the race. Sitting around an indoor track stadium for 8 hours is such bigtime fun lemme tell ya.

Finally, my comment about moving on. I didnt' mean never run again. I just mean it can't be your #1 forever. Meaning you can't sacrifice for it and base your decisions around it for forever. And if you're 40 and still doing/talking about the same things you did when you were 21 then you're missing out as far as i'm concerned. I mean if you're still on letsrun.com arguing with some high school kid about webb or explaining your opinion on base training for the 20th year in a row then something is wrong i think. Run forever, just don't run 60 mile weeks forever.

sweep spot has it right. you do not pay for friends. the house, parties, etc don't pay for themselves. if you live in the house (housing, food, amenitites, etc) dues are a bargain for what you get in return.

that aside. some people can pull off both running and being fratty, most can't. this of course coming from a mediocre d2 runner who has no desire to run past college.

This isn't addressed to anyone in particular, just my $.02

I always looked at it this way. If running is important to you...you get 4 years of college eligibility to be the best you can be. You've got the rest of your life to stay up late, booze, network, "be normal", chase women, and all those other things that you'd supposedly have to give up to live the lifestyle of a collegiate athlete.

Being in a frat is almost undoubtedly more fun on a regular basis than being on the team, but the rewards of competition are greater in my opinion. You'll work harder, have more ups and downs, be more stressed out, etc., but in the end I think the experience rings more true.

Just something to think about...everyone talks about the parties and shit. No one talks about the community service we do and the help we give the communtiy. And also you dont have the rest of your life to be a part of a bond of brotherhood. A fraternity is a once in a life time experience. Not just for the drinking but for the friends I bet anyone in a frat is closer to most of his brothers than most of you are to teamates...not only that this something that is nation wide I can go to almost any college campus have a place to stay and party and feel a common bond with those people I have never met. Not only that when will running ever help you get a good job after college? A good fraternity will have alumi that can do very easily.

P.S. you cant really go to huge Jello party or have slip and slide parties after college thats a once and lifetime thing and thats in college