Sub 4 min mile equivalent on treadmill

Any thoughts on this? In particular, any thoughts on whether it is possible to have the metabolic capacity (i.e. aerobic and anaerobic capacity) to run close to a sub 4 min mile but not the leg turnover?

Bumping again. Found the following thread, which touches on the main question I'm interested in here.

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2167327

I'd somehow never really considered that it could be mechanics that are the limiting factor. If one can do something equivalent to a sub 4 min mile metabolically, e.g. uphill but at a slower pace, can one expect to be able to teach's one body the stride mechanics to run at sub 4 min mile pace on the flat? Or are the muscles involved very different uphill vs on the flat?

Fam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyeC6C7jwEk

Fam sub 4 @ 40 years old.

https://runningmagazine.ca/the-scene/anthony-famiglietti-runs-a-4-minute-treadmill-mile-on-his-41st-birthday/

sub 4 min mile wrote:

Bumping again. Found the following thread, which touches on the main question I'm interested in here.

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2167327

I'd somehow never really considered that it could be mechanics that are the limiting factor. If one can do something equivalent to a sub 4 min mile metabolically, e.g. uphill but at a slower pace, can one expect to be able to teach's one body the stride mechanics to run at sub 4 min mile pace on the flat? Or are the muscles involved very different uphill vs on the flat?

Running downhill sub 4 miles teaches the nervous system to contract at a faster pace. But it is risky in terms of injury. And it is an eccentic contraction.

Thank you, running downhill sounds like a very good suggestion! Apart from the injury risk, there is nothing wrong with eccentric contractions if I understand correctly? They are likely to strengthen the usual concentric contractions I believe.

fred wrote:

Fam sub 4 @ 40 years old.

https://runningmagazine.ca/the-scene/anthony-famiglietti-runs-a-4-minute-treadmill-mile-on-his-41st-birthday/

More like 4:15 if from a dead start

Still hoping to hear from some people with experience of this! Any able to do 3:00 min/km pace (i.e. 15 min 5km pace) at 5% incline? Were you eventually able to do a sub 4 minute mile? Or anybody with comparable experiences at a slower or faster pace?

The treadmill is easier. There is no wind, pacing is done for you, ... Probably at least to 10 seconds easier.

Also, uphill is not the same. It means you have a fitness similar to that performance, and you have to train for the performance you are after and its requirements. If things translated directly like that, you could do an equivalent performance on a bike and expect to walk over to a 4:00 mile without additional training.

It is not nothing. I would not take it too seriously and just as an indicator workout.

treadmillwarrior wrote:

The treadmill is easier. There is no wind, pacing is done for you, ... Probably at least to 10 seconds easier.

Also, uphill is not the same. It means you have a fitness similar to that performance, and you have to train for the performance you are after and its requirements. If things translated directly like that, you could do an equivalent performance on a bike and expect to walk over to a 4:00 mile without additional training.

It is not nothing. I would not take it too seriously and just as an indicator workout.

Thanks for the thoughts! I agree regarding wind and pacing; 10-15s per mile seems to be a commonly used adjustment between treadmill and outside when using 0% incline on the treadmill. The warmness of a gym may counteract that to a certain extent, though.

Is running uphill really very much different mechanically? It is if the gradient is very steep, but I wouldn't have thought it is so different for the gradients typically used on a treadmill.

Something I have heard expressed is that for a given pace, the treadmill may be easier at first until one's breathing reaches the 'stable level' for that pace, but that after that the calculator linked to in the first thread seems quite accurate for comparing to 0% incline; the treadmill might be even harder.

I agree with your final sentence, but it would interesting to know how good of an indicator it is!

Something I have heard expressed is that for a given pace, the treadmill may be easier at first until one's breathing reaches the 'stable level' for that pace, but that after that the calculator linked to in the first thread seems quite accurate for comparing to 0% incline; the treadmill might be even harder.

In case it was not clear, the above was meant to refer to running at incline vs running without incline.