What income is considered upper class?

You are absurdly out of touch with reality. So much so that I now question the truth of anything you've written. You are the definition of an unreliable narrator.

Gyydjrknf wrote:

Not upper class wrote:

I live in the Boston area and make a bit more than that. I consider myself solidly middle class, not upper middle. We worry about money, we can't afford the kitchen remodel our older house desperately needs, we're not sure how we'll afford our kids' college, etc. Upper middle to me means freedom from some of these headaches and I'd say that's $1,000,000+ in this area.

If you are making 500k+ a year and can't afford a desperately needed kitchen remodel or saving for your kids' college education then yoi desperately need a financial planner. And if you actually consider yourself middle class then you are absurdly out of touch.

Sounds middle class to me. That's what two working parents in an engineer/law/medical/high skill field would make. Sounds silly to describe that as "upper class" IMO.

Ok. So I know where you are coming from. We too live in Boston, have 1 kid and another on the way and will clear a bit over 1mm this year but more standardly clear 600-700k annually. In general we are probably in the same(ish) ballpark as you.

I do not consider us wealthy by any stretch. People who don’t live in VHCOL areas with a family just don’t get that it costs 1.3-1.5mm to buy a normal looking house in a neighborhood with good public schools.

That said, it is just ridiculous to label yourself as middle class at a 500k+ income. It is almost insulting to the middle class. You are clearly at the upper end of upper middle class at that income range. Additionally, I have to agree with other posters. If you are truly stretching to remodel a kitchen at that income level you are not budgeting appropriately. In a normal year where we are clearing 600-700k we can cover a 1.1mm 15 year mortgage, put 20k into a college fund, max out all tax advantages accounts and still squirrel away another 100k while still traveling, eating well and generally not really budgeting. I would be interested in how you are so strapped for cash unless you are leasing 2 luxury cars, overbought a house etc.

HCOL areas wrote:

Gyydjrknf wrote:

If you are making 500k+ a year and can't afford a desperately needed kitchen remodel or saving for your kids' college education then yoi desperately need a financial planner. And if you actually consider yourself middle class then you are absurdly out of touch.

Sounds middle class to me. That's what two working parents in an engineer/law/medical/high skill field would make. Sounds silly to describe that as "upper class" IMO.

It's far sillier to describe that as "solidly middle class, not upper middle."

pr100 wrote:

Class and wealth are not the same thing...

This. Bill Gates is richer than Michael Bloomberg, but Gates is middle class and Bloomberg is upper class. Rappers and ballers are almost without exception lower class despite their incomes. Class is to do with taste, education and family background, not money. It's the British caste system, poorly imported to North America.

Bingo. Disregard anything this poster has written.

Reading your posts is like watching "The Curse of Oak Island."

wealth E wrote:

Upper class probably starts around $5 million net worth, that lets you buy a million-dollar house and still have enough invested to comfortably draw over $100k to live on every year.

That said, I'd say around a million a year in income makes you defacto upper class, because you could live comfortably while also saving enough to hit that $5MM mark in a few years.

A million-dollar house is certainly not upper class. In some parts of the country $1 million won't even get you a fixer-upper.

Check out one of the cheaper homes for sale in Palo Alto for $2.5 mil.

Or this 900 sq ft mansion for just under $2.0 million.

I would say upper class means you can pay for a $10.0 million home in cash without it being a financial burden. And there are many thousands of people in the Bay Area that can do this.

Palo Alto is the most expensive place to live though. If you consider the entire country as a whole, being able to buy a home in California instead of rent is probably upper middle class at least. Any decent house is 1 million dollars. On the flip side, you could get a mansion in South Carolina for a few hundred thousand so you have to average things out.

not even close wrote:

A million-dollar house is certainly not upper class. In some parts of the country $1 million won't even get you a fixer-upper.

I'm some parts of the country, rich people can't afford fixer-uppers.

I'm not a greedy corporate conformist. I want to have a life and be able to run freely. I don't want to be controlled by a company so I sacrifice pay to live happier. I could be swept up by a big company and make a 6 figure salary but then my fear is becoming sedentary and fat and getting mentally sick/exhausted. My aim is to make my age in thousands of dollars a year sometime soon. That is my benchmark for middle/upper class. There is no point making millions and having a heart attack from stress. That is not upper class.

I’m also a 36 y/o Boston Suburb resident and work in Boston. Between my wife and I we’re making about ~$225k annually and I’d say we’re solidly middle class around here. Any of the places we want to move for the schools are pretty out of reach for us inside the 128 belt/north of the pike. I have 2 kids not yet in school.

I’ll give you some more stats:

2 cars both Japanese made: 1 is 6 years old and paid off, one is 5 years old and has about a year left to pay. Bought both used.

30 year mortgage: 20 left to pay/$200k/3.5% rate

Home Value ~ $450k

401k: between both of us ~$650k. Almost maxing out every year + generous company matching.

Liquid Assets: MF/Stocks/ETFs/cash ~ $200k

No IRA, No 529 yet.

I worry about finances a lot. It’s my single biggest stress in my life.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM wrote:

I’m also a 36 y/o Boston Suburb resident and work in Boston. Between my wife and I we’re making about ~$225k annually and I’d say we’re solidly middle class around here. Any of the places we want to move for the schools are pretty out of reach for us inside the 128 belt/north of the pike. I have 2 kids not yet in school.

You are not middle class. You are ridiculously out of touch with reality.

JFC, people here probably think they are in the poorhouse if they can't comfortably afford to send their kids to a 40k/year private school for 12 years. Letsrun really has no idea how most of the people in this country (including most of the people in high COL areas) are living.

Tl;dr: At 36, my household has almost 1 million in net worth and has income of 225k a year, but I am still worried my kids might have to go to school with minorities.

Geezus people, let's start with some definitions.

Wealthy - you could quit your job and still maintain the lifestyle you have indefinitely.

Upper class - your earnings put you in the top 25% of earners in your area.

Middle class - your earnings put you in the middle 50% of earners in your area.

Lower class - your earnings put you in the lower 25% of earners in your area.

For Boston-Cambridge area or the San Fran area, that means if your household earns over $200k, you're upper class.

"I worry about finances a lot". Why? Are you irrational?

To the moron that says they make $500k and are just getting by, then you are making bad spending decisions, no matter where you live. Let's say you bring home $250k after taxes. Let's say you just bought a $2mil home, 100% financed. Your mortgage would be around $10k per month. That means you would have $120k left to live off of. That's more than the gross income of 90% of the people in the US. And that's after we subtracted out your taxes and your $2mil home mortgage. You would literally have to be an idiot to say you are struggling.

And BTW, quit saying crap like this. It's only going to make the true middle class want to tax us more.

Doctor guy says he maxes out both 401k's every year, but is stressed about finances. Do you know how many people can't afford to even contribute enough to their 401k's to get their company match? Geez, you people are out of touch.

I'd never send my kids to a private elementary or high school. What's the problem with wanting to get into a city or town with a great public school system. I grew up and live in a burb that is known for not having a great school system now.

All I'm saying is that yeah I'm doing pretty I acknowledge that but inside of 128 in Mass i'm middle class largely based on housing costs. I still can't buy into the towns I want to live in and not be house poor and save for all things I need to . At 36 and owning a house for 10 years we're not willing to go through a fixer upper buy either so our options are pretty limited.

You're upper-middle class. I grew up in the area, and was fortunate to grow up upper-middle class. I wouldn't say just because you can't afford to move at age 36 to Weston or Wellesley without taking on some debt or dipping into savings you become Middle Class. These are wealthy neighborhoods with high barriers to entry. The average household income is below where you are pulling. But a lot of people have accumulated wealth or bought houses decades ago.

I'd say if you are in the top 25% of earners in your area and you spend your money on classy stuff and hobnob with classy people, then you are upper class.

If you make a bunch of money and don't spend it, then you are middle class.

It's not income or wealth.

First class is spending at least $100K/year on non-appreciating items.