You don't even know the difference between easy run and recovery run.
Not the same, fellas.
You don't even know the difference between easy run and recovery run.
Not the same, fellas.
controlling the control freaks wrote:
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
Salazar FORCED Farah to run faster on his easy days - 7 min/mile down to 5:30. That change turned him from a great international runner into the best one in the world. He beat all those guys who kept running 8 min miles on their easy days all the time. Salazar said that Farah at 7 min/mile pace was just burning calories without getting better. The most important thing to improve for elites is running economy, and a 5:30 pace surely does that better than a 7:00 pace.
You are not lifting your knees high enough, your cadence is not high, and it feels really weird to run 8 min miles as a ~13:00 guy. That's like a 16:00 guy doing 11 min miles, you think that's gonna feel good for him?
This thread is about easy pace for recovery. 5.30 miling for Rupp and Farah was not easy recovery.
If you want to post specious numbers for 'easy' pace, don't be surprised if you are met with disagreement. 5.30 miling for them would be better place into a category named intensive endurance, i.e. slightly sub marathon pace.
You're wrong. My easy pace was approx 5:40/mile. Rupp and Farah would be dragging their feet to run 5:30 pace.
"Recovery" runs is a semantic label. It is a relative term. Reality is that you are recovering only when you are not running.
Training isn't about maximum stress and then full recovery, it is all about overlapping stresses of variable intensities and overlapping variable recoveries. Every day, when you are not running you are recovering. Every day, when you are sleeping, you are recovering more. Every day, when you are eating you are recovering. Likewise, everytime you lace up your shoes you are training, no matter what the intensity.
Perhaps we have it backwards? Depends on what you are doing. Do you have these REALLY big workouts where you go to the well and smash yourself? Or are your workouts more controlled?
If you are smashing huge workouts, then maybe a slower running days between are warranted.
If you run more controlled workouts perhaps you can get away wit that sub at almost marathon pace type running.
It's incredibly hard to deny the evidence of people running quick on their daily mileage.
Arkansas under John McDonnell would typically run 5:30 - 6:00min pace daily. + a fast 12 -14 mile long run. Though 75-85 mpw.
Lagat - basically running 5:15-20 pace daily. 60-70mpw
Grete Waitz? (4:00) basically running 5:40-6:00 pace ( RARELY over 6:00min pace)
John Walker First man under 3:50 mile - 5:20-5:30 pace most mileage. 80+
Steve Cram first under 3:30 - 5:00-5:20 pace. 60-80mpw. 5-8mile runs A lot of times closing in hard last two miles under 9.
Carlos Lopes - basically 20-40 min tempo runs 3-4 times a week. FAST.
Ron Clark - chopping what? 30-40 seconds off 10K world record? Fast running DAILY mostly working down to 5 min pace most days.
So what is it ? Is it just these individuals? Are they just running these paces because they are that good? Or are they that good because they re running these paces? I think it's the latter....
Carlos Lopes & Ron Clark both had disappointing careers before fast running was introduced into their training.
With Ron Clarke, he didn't do many structured workouts. So yeah, you can go a bit harder day to day. But on the other hand elites like Makhloufi smash it on hard days and go super slow on their easy days. Some do better doing it one way and others the other way. There's only one way to find out which way works better for you. That is to do it both ways and see which way your body reacts better to.
Didn't Steve Scott run his recovery runs at 5:45 pace? Thought I read that in his book. My college coach was a good friend of his so it's possible he told me.
malmo wrote:
controlling the control freaks wrote:
This thread is about easy pace for recovery. 5.30 miling for Rupp and Farah was not easy recovery.
If you want to post specious numbers for 'easy' pace, don't be surprised if you are met with disagreement. 5.30 miling for them would be better place into a category named intensive endurance, i.e. slightly sub marathon pace.
You're wrong. My easy pace was approx 5:40/mile. Rupp and Farah would be dragging their feet to run 5:30 pace.
"Recovery" runs is a semantic label. It is a relative term. Reality is that you are recovering only when you are not running.
Training isn't about maximum stress and then full recovery, it is all about overlapping stresses of variable intensities and overlapping variable recoveries. Every day, when you are not running you are recovering. Every day, when you are sleeping, you are recovering more. Every day, when you are eating you are recovering. Likewise, everytime you lace up your shoes you are training, no matter what the intensity.
Well, I do agree with Phil when he says that our distance paces are related to proportion of fast and slow twitch. And Rupp and Farah were fasterthanu were they not over short distances?
Salazar is an OCD Panacea seeker is he not? He gets an idea in his head about something and that's the Emperor's new clothes. Why the heck did he employ Magness who was very young and naïve at the time? Why did he get obsessed with L-Carnitine? Why didn't he understand that weight loss should be gradual and seasonal?
I do agree: "Recovery" runs is a semantic label. It is a relative term. Reality is that you are recovering only when you are not running.
But running very slow for an elite runner is what they should do when they are very tired. And the closer they are to peak fitness especially for track racing, the more caution is required.
Jerry Maguire wrote:
Perhaps we have it backwards? Depends on what you are doing. Do you have these REALLY big workouts where you go to the well and smash yourself? Or are your workouts more controlled?
If you are smashing huge workouts, then maybe a slower running days between are warranted.
If you run more controlled workouts perhaps you can get away wit that sub at almost marathon pace type running.
It's incredibly hard to deny the evidence of people running quick on their daily mileage.
Arkansas under John McDonnell would typically run 5:30 - 6:00min pace daily. + a fast 12 -14 mile long run. Though 75-85 mpw.
Lagat - basically running 5:15-20 pace daily. 60-70mpw
Grete Waitz? (4:00) basically running 5:40-6:00 pace ( RARELY over 6:00min pace)
John Walker First man under 3:50 mile - 5:20-5:30 pace most mileage. 80+
Steve Cram first under 3:30 - 5:00-5:20 pace. 60-80mpw. 5-8mile runs A lot of times closing in hard last two miles under 9.
Carlos Lopes - basically 20-40 min tempo runs 3-4 times a week. FAST.
Ron Clark - chopping what? 30-40 seconds off 10K world record? Fast running DAILY mostly working down to 5 min pace most days.
So what is it ? Is it just these individuals? Are they just running these paces because they are that good? Or are they that good because they re running these paces? I think it's the latter....
Carlos Lopes & Ron Clark both had disappointing careers before fast running was introduced into their training.
This is why I love let’s run ...
Yeah, never heard of Clarke slogging out 7:30 - 8:00 pace ever; ElG working everything not on the track at 3:00 - 2:50/km; Bekele also hammered along at 3:00 low.