Let’s see how much attention this gets - Jen Rhines shares her thoughts

GaryB! One of the originals.

This is a really good blog post by Jen Rhines. These issues aren't new, and that's part of the problem. They had a 1970s culture in that regard. And the Mary Cain situation was especially bad because she was a high school age teen (still developing) going pro under the most intense coach out there. Back to Rhines, she succeeded not only because of her talent and great coaching, but because she was able to figure it out on her own.

+1

Great post but she’s not bashing Salazar or Nike.

Funny how ( Nike haters, Goucher, Magness etc) only endorse and support posts that bash Nike or AlSal lol, in my opinion makes them look like hypocrites. Goes to show you if they really care about Cain or it’s just another chance to “take down” Nike lol

The negative shocker posts always get more attention than the positive ones... I hope Rhines' good experience is more common than the negative stories we're hearing.

For those who don't know, she is married to Terrence Mahon. I think they started dating when they were athletes at Villanova or post-collegiates still training on the Main Line.

Well, the one thing she misses is it wasn't exactly the athlete's decision to make an emotional response to weight conversations under ALsal, he would literally MAKE it an emotional attack on them about their weight, to create that response and shame...

I think the other thing that is missed, is the culture on teams is very often the start of these issues, not just coaches but teammates can often be the worst influences on the rest of the team. When you have team dinners after the long run and only egg whites and lettuce are being consumed, it sends a very strong message....

My D1 team, not a very good one at that, had this kind of culture, and a very heavily used scale in the locker room, and endless discussions about calories. It was annoying when so many basic things like lifting or proper recovery from workouts were ignored. Its like an obsession for some people that will fog out so many other important things.

I wouldn't say she's missing that, just choosing not to go there and just to relate her experiences, which were not so negative. To show that there are other ways.

It doesn't demand the pound of flesh, so it won't get any attention. Which is a shame because this is the article that young female athletes (and male athletes) need to read. This is what I envision when I think of a strong female athlete. I don't think of a victim.

I wish the NYT would interview Jen. I have not read yesterday's Shalane article due to the pay wall but hope to read it soon. I would imagine it is of a similar tone.

Salazar was a crazy coach and we all knew it. He was a terrible fit for Cain. But I am worried that the rage and revilement is moving women's sports back, years if not decades, rather than doing anything to help. This concerns me as a father with athletic daughters.

God bless the strong women who compete like warriors!

GaryB wrote:

https://www.jenrhines.com/blog/2019/11/18/my-thoughts-and-experiences-as-a-long-time-female-pro

Great article... she took responsibility, she took action...

wcelline wrote:

GaryB wrote:

https://www.jenrhines.com/blog/2019/11/18/my-thoughts-and-experiences-as-a-long-time-female-pro

Great article... she took responsibility, she took action...

She also walked a unique path, not identical to Cain's or Fleshman's or Yoder-Begley's. Having the right pieces in place at the right time, from home life as a child all the way through, clearly allowed her a healthy relationship with the sport that bears out in her longevity. It's all quite obvious, though I suppose some need it pointed out via her article. In hindsight, it's easy for me to point out teammates who were derailed by issues that plagued the above-mentioned trio, though it halted them far sooner in their progression. Women who have brilliant freshman years and then fade or slump, women who maybe wind up in chronic injury cycles by sophomore year, women who push themselves to be post-collegians under coaches who are lauded on this board yet plateau quickly and aren't supported by voices with the right answers. Rhines is of course admirable… and is the exception that proves the rule.

True story: I made a tasteless joke that a muscular girl should be running with the men in earshot of Jen Rhines at an invitational at the Armory back in the day and she scolded me. Jen is a way better person than me.

I'm glad she shared. I think it's important to share the success stories as well as those that struggle. I do think that most coaches have their heart in the right place, but this is an area where education is lacking, and the more that is shared, the more we can all learn and improve.

A few critical differences I noticed between her and Mary Cain's story:

- No one rushed her progress as an athlete

- She never attempted to maintain an ideal weight year round

- She took healthy breaks from high level training

- She gathered data on her body's health from more sources than just a number on the scale

- Her cycles were regular

- She was never shamed

- Her attention to body composition changed as her career evolved. It was not a focus in high school. Midway through college, she shifted to healthier eating habits. As a pro, she started tracking her body composition using a variety of measures.

Outsider262 wrote:

Great post but she’s not bashing Salazar or Nike.

Funny how ( Nike haters, Goucher, Magness etc) only endorse and support posts that bash Nike or AlSal lol, in my opinion makes them look like hypocrites. Goes to show you if they really care about Cain or it’s just another chance to “take down” Nike lol

...what’s the hypocrisy?

Wow, great article.

It shows again, that being responsible starts with yourself.

Mary Cain could have always left the Oregon project but she didn't.

wejo is a 28-low guy wrote:

For those who don't know, she is married to Terrence Mahon. I think they started dating when they were athletes at Villanova or post-collegiates still training on the Main Line.

Terrence was dating Sonia O'Sullivan when he was at Nova

Great article.

She let it come to her.

What's the medal she's wearing around her neck in the first photo? It is too small to be an Olympic medal. Is there a story behind it?

TinaInCali wrote:

Unlike Goucher, Cain or Fleshman, Rhines is a mature person who understands personal responsibility.

Is this what you think Jen's own take is on the situation?

It's not.

Agreed. I think the last point is especially important. Younger athletes, to the extent they think about food at all, should just be encouraged to eat quality foods.

There are a number of reasons why an elite body composition should be viewed as the finishing touch for a fully developed athlete:

1) Being fit and uninjured have cumulative benefits, but being super skinny does not. Ideally you would focus on the things that are going to pay long term dividends. Do better, longer workouts every year without long layoffs, and you'll be in a better position over the long term.

2) Erring on the side of being too skinny is more dangerous when you're younger. You can end up with permanently brittle bones and interrupted puberty. If, on the other hand, you end up getting too skinny for the first time only in your mid-20s, it's more likely that you can survive it without serious consequences. You're fully mature, and your bones are likely more dense.

3) You're far more likely to develop disordered eating when you start obsessing over it at a younger age.

4) Getting super-lean is a really tricky process. It's much easier to do properly when you're a full time pro with time to cook real meals, consult with nutritionists, and get DEXA scans. When college students try to do it on their own, eating from the cafeteria, their approach is basically to starve themselves.

5) There is actually not a big difference in weight between an athlete who just tries to eat healthy and one who has worked very hard to get to the lowest possible healthy body fat percentage. A few pounds might be 5 seconds in a 1500. Those couple pounds don't matter all that much until you're truly world class and the difference between first and last is a couple of seconds.

TinaInCali wrote:

Unlike Goucher, Cain or Fleshman, Rhines is a mature person who understands personal responsibility. She is one to be lauded.

My guess is the MeToo crowd will disparage her for being the female version of an Uncle Tom.

It's clear that you've never read Uncle Tom's Cabin. Had you, you would have understand that Kara Goucher and Mary Cain (Auntie Toms) were the one's who stood up to Salazar (Simon Legree) and have paid a price for it.

I suspect you won't, but educate yourself. Read the book, or forever hold to your ignoranc.