Low mileage 400-800 m training

I enjoyed reading that actually, party because I have similar goals and you get virtually no discussion of 4/8 training here.

Your goals are very realistic; it doesn't look like you've done any serious specific work and you're already on track to hitting your 600 goal (and based on the decent strength you have, your 800 too). The 400 is going to be the toughest. 58 to 54 is a BIG improvement, but with serious speed work 8 or so weeks leading up to your goal 400m I think you have a shot. The 6/8 are very reasonable goals. Good luck

Nadabada wrote:

I enjoyed reading that actually, party because I have similar goals and you get virtually no discussion of 4/8 training here.

Thanks for your input and best of luck with your goals! How has your training been structured?

Nadabada wrote:

The 400 is going to be the toughest. 58 to 54 is a BIG improvement, but with serious speed work 8 or so weeks leading up to your goal 400m I think you have a shot.

I was thinking this too. I wonder if there is a way to incorporate some 400-specific training on one of my 30 minute days during the week? Or maybe I should add a 5th day with a 400-specific session only.

Sprinter's Compendium can help I provide a 3 month plan for a mixed zone athlete aka 400/800 runners.

I have some good workouts that I think will be your best friends:

12-15 x 150m @ 400m race pace with about a minute rest

8-12 x 200m in under 30 seconds, take the minimum required amount of rest needed to be able to hit that sub 30 again. (might be 45 seconds at the beginning and 3 minutes at the end)

6-8 x 400m in under 1:10 with 2 minutes rest

These are all pretty low mileage but you get a lot of bang for your buck. Good luck!

Help88 wrote:

I have some good workouts that I think will be your best friends:

12-15 x 150m @ 400m race pace with about a minute rest

8-12 x 200m in under 30 seconds, take the minimum required amount of rest needed to be able to hit that sub 30 again. (might be 45 seconds at the beginning and 3 minutes at the end)

6-8 x 400m in under 1:10 with 2 minutes rest

These are all pretty low mileage but you get a lot of bang for your buck. Good luck!

Thanks for the input! Maybe I will try one of these out next weekend.

I was traveling for work most of the past two weeks so I was inconsistent. I need to get in the habit of running when traveling again. I felt pretty good in the 600 time trial this week, although I didn't run faster than three weeks ago. The track was in worse condition (wet) this time, so I feel pretty good about this.

Regardless, I need to get more consistent and actually hit 20 mpw.

2019-11-18 – 2019-11-24

W 29:16 (4.01 mi) run

F 31:49 (4.21 mi) run with 2 x stride

2019-11-25 – 2019-12-01

W 10:10 (1.50 mi) run hungover

Th 29:40 (4.15 mi) run

S (~ 4 mi total) 600 m TT in 1:34.1 (29,31,34)

Su 41:45 (6.07 mi) run

Completetrackandfield.com 400/600/800.

Comprehensive.

Considering your talent you should reach your goal even within 20-25 miles. Therefore you should make every run more challenging and purposeful. You are running low mileage and therefore it is possible to recover better. Or to put it in other words: You train low mileage (I hope this is your attitude!) because you want to run quite hard every day. This does not mean all out efforts every single day, which would be a disaster.

For example, instead of running 4 miles in about 30min at an easy continuous pace, try this (modified week from 2019-11-04 to 2019-11-10) :

M rest

T 15min easy followed by 3 x (3min hard, 2min easy), perhaps strides

Th 20 min easy, 4-5x200/30s-45s rest in: 36-34-32-30-30/29 (longer rest for the last two 200's at the end)

F Hike for work, 4 mi ~ 360 m climbing (Cycling, right?)

S 15min easy followed by 30min fartlek style (example: ladder, 5-4-3-2-1/2min jog rest, increase the pace but stay controlled, last hard minute really tough, if possible add 2-3x30m-40m all out sprints with good recovery)

Su 5-6 miles hilly progression run, start slow but finish fast, the last 400m really fast

Try it, it's possible.

Thanks for your suggestion Make it count! I liked the plan and structured last week close to what you suggested.

2019-12-02 – 2019-12-08

T 32:10 (4.64 mi)

17 min WU, 3 x 3:00 on/2:00 off (6:00, 5:36, 5:33 pace)

W 4 mi mountainous hike for work

F 25:14 (3.42 mi)

20 min EZ, 5 x 0:30 on/0:30 off

S 40:49 (6.30 mi)

15 min WU, 30 min fartlek ladder with 2:00 rest each (7:08 avg rest pace)

5:00 (5:49 pace), 4:00 (5:43), 3:00 (5:39), 2:00 (5:16), 1:00 (4:46)

3 x 50 m sprints

Su 40:36 (6.00 mi) hilly

~ 7:00 first 2 mi, ~ 6:45 next 2, 6:25 last 2

Strength work MWF

20.36 miles total

2019-12-30 – 2020-01-05

T 32:43 (4.90 mi)

17 min WU, 3 x 3:00 on/2:00 off (6:00, 5:46, 5:55 pace)

Th 24:21 (3.39 mi), 4 x 0:15 on/0:45 off

S 33:24 (5.00 mi)

Su (5.56 mi total)

6 x 400 m w/ 2 min rest in 69, 72, 69, 70, 69, 72

2 x 200 m in 33, 34

2 x 100 m in 13, 13

Strength work MWF

18.79 mi (30.3 km) weekly total

I fell off a bit (again) the past few weeks because of travel for work and to see family. I have less work travel coming up, so I should be more consistent again. Pretty happy with this week. I have a minor head cold which is getting better but I still feel a bit off on the Saturday and Sunday runs this week. I am going to get one more good week of training in and then do a 600 m TT on either the 18th or 19th.

Also, if it matters at all I now weigh 160 lbs (72.5 kg). Mostly all muscle gains still.

FWIW, here's the plan my 400-800 guys will be following this year.

https://hughsoncc.blogspot.com/2019/12/long-sprints-mid-distance.html

As written, the plan is aimed at kids who ran cross, and plan to run cross again. So, there's lots of little doubles thrown in there to keep their volume up. If I was coaching a guy that had no designs on running longer races, I'd probably throw a few more reps of fast stuff on the quality days and drop out some of the doubles.

CoachB wrote:

FWIW, here's the plan my 400-800 guys will be following this year.

https://hughsoncc.blogspot.com/2019/12/long-sprints-mid-distance.html

As written, the plan is aimed at kids who ran cross, and plan to run cross again. So, there's lots of little doubles thrown in there to keep their volume up. If I was coaching a guy that had no designs on running longer races, I'd probably throw a few more reps of fast stuff on the quality days and drop out some of the doubles.

Thanks for sharing!

Spruce, nice job, you got it. Please continue for at least four weeks to see what happens. It makes sense to change the content of each workout day by shifting the speed work from day A to day B for example without increasing the overall volume, or by running 3x3min in a progression with a short but superfast finish. Play a little bit around. This results in a different stimulus and developement. Good luck! There is no need to up your mileage before you have not maxed out the quality of your runs or you have realized that you simply can't reach your goals on low mileage/all for the family. :)

So, did you break 5?

Coincidentally, 5’10” and 155 was almost my college racing weight. (I was 5’11 and 147-152)

So, you’re not really “overweight”. You’re thick compared to elite distance guys but you have a smaller BMI than probably 90% of American adults.

Thanks for encouragement and advice so far!

I actually did not end up running that road mile from my original post. I had something come up and it was too far of a drive for me to get there in time lol. If I had to estimate, I think I could run ~ 4:50 for a 1600 at the moment though.

2020-01-06 – 2020-01-12

T24:06 (3.49 mi), 4 x 0:15 on/0:45 off

Th31:04 (4.59 mi)

15 min WU, 3 x 3:00 on/2:00 off (5:44, 5:39, 5:57 pace)

last rep had a ~ 20 m (65 ft) hill

S(5.36 mi total)

8 x 200 m w/ 2 min rest in 27, 30, 28, 28, 29, 28, 29, 29

2 x 100 m in 13, 13

Felt pretty good. Light rain/wet track but no wind.

Su33:36 (5.00 mi) hilly

Felt good. Last two in 12:30 (6:22, 6:08)

Strength work MWF

18.44 mi (29.6 km) weekly total

Another week done! Felt good all around this week. I might do a 400 m TT next weekend instead of 600 m. I think I can go faster than the 58 I ran more than three months ago now.

2020-01-13 – 2020-01-19

T 31:59 (4.54 mi)

15 min WU, 3 x 3:00 on/2:00 off (6:04, 5:38, 5:55 pace)

last rep had a ~ 20 m (65 ft) hill. Got off work late, so it was dark and slick surface.

Th 26:33 (3.74 mi), 4 x 0:15 on/0:45 off

S (2.36 mi)

15 min WU, 400m TT in 58.

Slightly disappointed. It was fairly cold (36 F [2 C], 21 F [-6 C] dew pt.) and I ran early morning because of my schedule. It didn't really feel like I got everything out of myself today. Alternatively and equally likely, it is possible I am just not improving fitness yet lol. I think I will readjust my 400 m goal to 56 seconds. That said, I am still pretty happy with today.

Su 33:47 (5.00 mi) hilly

Felt good. Last two in 12:50 (6:31, 6:19).

strength MWF

15.64 mi (25.2 km) weekly total