Can someone relatively succinctly explain to me why Brexit is so bad?

EU not so great wrote:

If being in a union is so great then why is there nothing like the EU anywhere else in the world? Why isn't there an Americas Union for example?

The United States is actually not that different from the EU, both in size and in terms of the degree of sovereignty that their constituent governments retain.

WhyRegisterHere? wrote:

Still, imagine any current US state (yes, including the State-On-Fire we call California that often boasts of being powerful) deciding to go its own way. It couldn't possibly be successful.

Yes, and no. There are costs and benefits large supra-governments.

The benefit is that you reduce transaction costs. Free trade and free migration are generally fantastic for economic growth.

But there are serious political costs. The larger a democracy becomes, the worse it functions. Each voter's power is diluted to the point where they become rationally ignorant and apathetic. Legislative bodies become paralyzed, both by the sheer number of different interests pushing in opposite directions and by the quantity of business about which they're responsible. They start delegating more and more authority to non-democratic, administrative agencies. More decisions are made at high levels without allowing for smaller communities with different values and circumstances to find their own solutions. This is the political problem with both the EU and the US.

That’s a terrible example. If Britain offered to sign an interim agreement agreeing to the current eu rules other than immigration and the eu said no, they are being twats.

(I haven’t followed the discussion closely enough to actually comment on what is being offered, but have followed closely enough to see it is a bunch of bureaucratic twats trying to be difficult)

I'm really ignorant wrote:

Seems to me it would make sense they'd want to govern themselves again.

They still governed themselves.

The EU is a trade agreement under a shared currency.

Leaving the EU makes it harder to do all transactions outside their country.

Imagine if you could only work and buy things in your neighborhood and it was difficult to bring things in and out of other states.

It limits what you can do economically.

It's been a long time since I've thought much about the Troubles, but am aware that there is a never-ending simmering bit of pain among the people in Northern Ireland. I just reminded myself of the territory involved by looking at a map and it is striking how the Brits can look at that map and feel entitled to hold onto that wedge of a completely separate island.

Is it possible that England will give that up once and for all and support a unified Ireland at peace? I understand there are plenty of Protestants/Unionists there, but how is that different than arguing that because there were Russians in Crimea, or in Ukraine, that Russia is entitled to those territories?

If these issues have truly been transitioning toward genuine peace, that alone would be a great reason to remain. If the Brexit comes at the cost of more bloodshed in N. Ireland than Boris will go down as an all-time dikkhead in my book.

"Hey phukko Euros, we're leaving. Hey Catholics, you can't leave." You cannot make that work for very long.

Taking back control is such a massive pile of bollocks. Anyone who swallows that one is utterly stupid.

We already had control of all the things the brexiteers are saying should be taken control of.

Nope wrote:

Taking back control is such a massive pile of bollocks. Anyone who swallows that one is utterly stupid.

We already had control of all the things the brexiteers are saying should be taken control of.

Taking back control is extremely important. Britain has more control than some other countries because it doesn"t have the euro and is not in Schengen.

But if a european citizen decide to go and leave in Britain, they can't oppose it. Basically they don't control their border and don't decide who can live in the UK or who can't.

As I said, the United States can't be compared to Europe. They are are a very young country build on european immigration and from british and other europeans colony. They have no separate history.

European have different culture, different languages, different mentality. A French isn't a german, a British is not a Greek or an Italian. The interests are different. This project is bound to fail and is already failing.

Not only the European union bloc is seeing worse economic growth that country who are not part of it, when economy was supposed to be its strong point, but the political project is seeing a growing opposition from the population. The most federalist are the smallest and powerless country like Belgium or Luxemburg.

The European union end goal is a political project which would kill all the european countries to create a federal bureaucratic entity. People who like their country can't accept it. And therefore people who love the UK want to leave.

Akmeden wrote:

yes..... wrote:

So, again, what do you actually want to do, that you can't already ?

Border control, trade control, money control, freedom of movement restrictions, judiciary control, market regulation control, energy control, natural ressource control.

Just a simple exemple, if a country wanted to tax foreign truck drivers to make them participate in the road renovation effort, it couldn't, because it would be illegal to tax foreign truck when national truck would not have the same tax, eventough they are already contributing paying their national tax.

Another classical exemple, is the possibility for a polish company to come and use worker do a job for less than half the market price in the other country because of lack of protections . This is called dumping.

Shock horror, the first thing you say when asked why you think Brexit is important is 'border control'.

All that bollocks you've spouted on this thread and it simply comes down to 'send em home, keep em out'.

Why not just admit it's all about the dirty darkies and forrens and stop beating around the bush with all the 'take back control' nonsense.

yes..... wrote:

Truck driving example. Yes, this is somewhat true (not quite, as there are still other methods of adjusting tax). However, this is an example of shooting oneself in the foot. The more level playing field actually allows our truck drivers access to the whole of the EU for haulage as well. Leaving the EU, means delays for Haulage, increased fuel costs, and more red tape, less permits, less business for the UK.

So yes, we could get the freedom to stifle our businesses, and have less investment. Why would we choose that though ?

Regarding Poles working here, the UK voted to not restrict immigration, so it's hardly the EUs fault.

What are the medthod? you can't discriminate or tax foreign companies inside the european zone.

The free market inside the european union has killed a lot of jobs in the western Europe because countless factories have been moved to the east of the european union. Basically, German, British, French, Italian have paid for the wealth and growth of Poland and Eastern countries.

Truck companies are competing with Polish driver being paid twice less. The level playing field is in favour of the poorest. It keep the wages low and destroy jobs.

trollism wrote:

Shock horror, the first thing you say when asked why you think Brexit is important is 'border control'.

All that bollocks you've spouted on this thread and it simply comes down to 'send em home, keep em out'.

Why not just admit it's all about the dirty darkies and forrens and stop beating around the bush with all the 'take back control' nonsense.

Taking back control is the most important thing. A State which doesn't control the laws in his own country is powerless.

Akmeden wrote:

trollism wrote:

Shock horror, the first thing you say when asked why you think Brexit is important is 'border control'.

All that bollocks you've spouted on this thread and it simply comes down to 'send em home, keep em out'.

Why not just admit it's all about the dirty darkies and forrens and stop beating around the bush with all the 'take back control' nonsense.

Taking back control is the most important thing. A State which doesn't control the laws in his own country is powerless.

Ok Dmitri.

trollism wrote:

Ok Dmitri.

As usual, the brainwashed european union shill have little argument.

Leaving would be catastrophic for the UK is their only argument. Project fear, because nothing they can't give any attractive argument about the european union.

No. Your thinking is right on. Now go further. What it's really about is control. Many people live off this control or have been essentially brainwashed to think they need it.

Akmeden wrote:

trollism wrote:

Ok Dmitri.

As usual, the brainwashed european union shill have little argument.

Leaving would be catastrophic for the UK is their only argument. Project fear, because nothing they can't give any attractive argument about the european union.

'Taking back control'

'Project fear'

You're basically just parroting the Russian disinformation catchphrases. Also, I have no idea where you're from really, but English isn't your first language. Why the massive interest in British politics?

It was total nonsense to have a vote of such moment, removal from the European Union, and accordingly for a 320 million or more people free trade zone within which there was also free movement of people, even in residency, which gives countless opportunities to British citizens, a zone that has helped to prevent major wars in an area that was the seat of two world wars in the twentieth century and countless national wars prior, with zero details on what would define this removal from the Union and the new policies and agreements needed, all on the strength of 50%+1. In the United States, super majorities are necessary for constitutional change and other weighty matters, with good reason. Brexit passed in total darkness (no knowledge of how it would be negotiated) and with a bare majority. No majority could have been reached with a variety of actual plans agreed to by the EU on the table. They should obviously revote. I do support the Brits and other countries re-taking some of their lost sovereignty, but that's a matter for negotiation on the European scale, not an all or nothing that will be very costly. As for non-EU wealthy nations, that's part of it, that they do not have to extricate themselves from this extraordinarily complex interaction.

It was stupid in the sense that they expected it go remain's way.

Even the leave campaign expected it. Johnson, Gove, etc were only fronting that campaign in the hope they could keep it close and further their political ambitions. None of them actually wanted to leave the EU. That's why it's such a mess.

Nobody actually in Westminster actually wants it.

Akmeden -

Stop stating the EU want a superstate! They do not. Most of the members would never agree to that.

You are a propaganda spreading Moran.

trollism wrote:

Akmeden wrote:

As usual, the brainwashed european union shill have little argument.

Leaving would be catastrophic for the UK is their only argument. Project fear, because nothing they can't give any attractive argument about the european union.

'Taking back control'

'Project fear'

You're basically just parroting the Russian disinformation catchphrases. Also, I have no idea where you're from really, but English isn't your first language. Why the massive interest in British politics?

Red through and through...he could do with a 9mm through and through...dirty soviet agent.

i know