Perhaps Craigy just craves attention that he can't win on the track.
When you're one of the top women in the world, the attention comes to you.
Craigy needs to shut his trap.
Perhaps Craigy just craves attention that he can't win on the track.
When you're one of the top women in the world, the attention comes to you.
Craigy needs to shut his trap.
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
BloodManipulation wrote:
IF she got tested 8 times in 3 weeks, it is likely because USADA suspects she is dirty. They might have been trying to catch her in her final heavy workout phase just before taper and cycling off of whatever she might have been using.
As others have said, passing tests does not make an athlete clean. Passing tests is a matter of knowing what is being tested and making sure your blood & urine will not cross any of the thresholds. xADA is the secondary tester of these athletes in many cases. A certain Italian coach has routinely posted blood data for athletes. US Postal Cycling team was doing their own blood testing. NOP was doing its own testing. Let me state the obvious: THERE IS NO REASON TO TAKE BLOOD UNLESS YOU ARE MANIPULATING IT! It costs money and unless you are doing something with the data to enhance the athlete, it is a pointless exercise. Alberto Salazar was in constant contact with USADA checking what substances were legal and what the legal limits were of certain blood markers. Why would someone need to do that if not to get right up to the limits but not trigger positive tests?
While I agree with the main points (which I will explain later), it is not true that you only draw blood if you want to manipulate it.
Every elite team and college team draws blood every few months, to check for:
1) thyroid conditions - these need to be treated asap, or the athlete will fall apart in academic life AND athletic performance
2) iron status - especially with females needs to be addressed immediately
3) vit D status - important for all
4) anemia
5) CPK values, to make sure the muscles are recovering appropriately
6) general health values, like blood pressure
So you see even without intention to doping/use illegal stuff, blood needs to be drawn. The thing with Salazar (and Dr Brown) is, he did not just treat deficiency's like any other team, he tried to optimize all values regardless of there being a deficiency or not, even if it comes at a health risk for the athlete (for example, thyroid meds without conditions can lead to hyperthyroidism and Ritz and some female athletes actually got these conditions and felt terrible under Salazar/Brown's treatment).
So far we are still legal. However, he also optimized testosterone levels (always testing for it, and increasing it illegally) and did massive L-carnitine infusions. People wrongly assume that he only gave Magness a 1-liter infusion, and stuck with 50 ml infusions to everyone else (which would be allowed). Truth is, they also did 1-liter infusions with elite NOP athletes, but changed the records (there is proof for that) stating it was only 50 ml. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that changing records, and doing the infusion with just Dr Brown+elite athlete+Salazar makes it 100% untraceable. Furthermore, we only know what Salazar did what athletes talked. Rupp and Goucher were definitely not the closest links to Salazar, so he never exposed them to the really hard AND secret stuff he might have used on athletes like Rupp, Farah and Hassan. These athletes obviously won't talk if they did anything against the rules, and no one has a chance of finding proof. The WADA and everyone who follows the sport knows what's going on, we just can't provide concrete proof because they operate in secrecy and keep their mouths shut (ever heard about a convicted doper? They also NEVER admit they took something, even after multiple positive tests, see Kiprop et. al.).
It sounds like we have similar thinking. However, I ran D1 and my team was top 5 in the NCAA one year and xTeen in another. I NEVER had blood drawn and was not aware of anyone else having blood drawn to just check for health. It may happen, but it did not happen on my team. My coach stressed good nutrition and checked on people at the dining halls regularly.
But even the examples you provide are only done with the intent of correcting a condition. EXACTLY the point I was making. If you see low iron, you add supplement to modify the blood condition. This is well within the rules, but is definitely done with the intent of finding marginal problems before the symptoms arise.
Spin cycle wrote:
Sarah Lorge Butler gave Craig extensive space to keep generating the positive spin on NOP, Pete Julian and the other NOP athletes.
Among many anecdotes showing Craig’s freewheeling approach to life, he also cites Sifan’s numerous OOC tests in St Moritz as proof that she is clean.
Balanced coverage by RW and refreshing perspective from Craig, or brainwashed pro-Nike swill?
Editor's note: We've changed the title of this thread. It was initially entitled, "Craig Engels in Runners World."
This thread causes some difficulties for the ordinary East African bashers.
Hassan is exactly the kind of athlete who is targeted by these posters. Craig is exactly the kind of athlete who these posters revere.
When an athlete like Craig protects an athlete like Hassan what does the Letsrunner do?
Well it looks like they say “oh poor Craig he is so simple and happy go lucky he doesn’t understand” and decide that they know more than the athlete from the same camp.
Lol
Doping Training Camps wrote:
Hardloper wrote:
Hamza Driouch and Laila Traby tested positive for EPO under Aden
Traby did but Driouch didn't. Driouch was banned for two years for ABP-hematological anomalies from London (maybe he didn't know about "hyperhydration." Lol). Traby was ambushed at her apartment in the Pyrenees where she was altitude training. Authorities found EPO in her frig - she was subsequently arrested and tested positive for EPO later while still in custody. Both cases were before the Aden arrest in Operation Rial.
No one tested positive for anything during that doping training camp at Operation Rial. None of the athletes have had bans of ABP violations either. Only Musaeb Balla was banned 4-years for possessing doping products (EPO) found in his suitcase. Lol. So, it looks like so far, that with the exception of poor Baala, everyone else including the mastermind behind the operation have gotten away with it.
That's true. The group's performances also took a nose dive after that and have never been in the same ballpark since.
neanderthal wrote:
exrunner wrote:
This thread causes some difficulties for the ordinary East African bashers.
Hassan is exactly the kind of athlete who is targeted by these posters. Craig is exactly the kind of athlete who these posters revere.
When an athlete like Craig protects an athlete like Hassan what does the Letsrunner do?
Well it looks like they say “oh poor Craig he is so simple and happy go lucky he doesn’t understand” and decide that they know more than the athlete from the same camp.
Lol
You are not very bright. Hassan is likely cheating of course. Engels is likely similar in intelligence to you. His opinion means about as much as yours.
I just reported your comment/post.
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Compact Bus Dealership Special wrote:
On top of an overwhelmingly strong likelihood of being dirty, Hassan seems like an unpleasant person. There is nothing anyone can really do about a lack of charisma, but Hassan is like the anti-Kipchoge, always looking like she just stole something or watched anonymously sourced video of her boyfriend slipping her best friend some tongue.
It's interesting that Engels, who is very likable, is continuing to explore this conversation even when he could clam up outright or offer some basic pablum to the press. He apparently enjoys a little controversy for its own sake. Sometimes young athletes can maintain that for a career, like Charles Barkley, while others change their approach because the attention ultimately grinds them down.
There is only one Charles Barkley. I want to see Craig Engels pick someone up and throw a grown man through a restaurant plate glass window. Only Charles Barkley can do all what he has done and be loved by so many.
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
Many of the "hardest working" people, like Lance Armstrong, El Guerrouj, Marion Jones, etc. were able to work so hard and put in tremendous training amounts and "superhero-sessions" (whether in winning race after race in the TdF or doing all runs at sub 5 pace like El G) BECAUSE of the PEDs.
Don't go grouping El G with Lance and Marion Jones. I understand what you're saying and agree being on drugs is what allows people to do crazy workouts like Engels is talking about, but El G was never sanctioned like the two athletes you sandwiched him next to. Have some respect and stop being a clown every single time you post.
exrunner wrote:
Spin cycle wrote:
Sarah Lorge Butler gave Craig extensive space to keep generating the positive spin on NOP, Pete Julian and the other NOP athletes.
Among many anecdotes showing Craig’s freewheeling approach to life, he also cites Sifan’s numerous OOC tests in St Moritz as proof that she is clean.
Balanced coverage by RW and refreshing perspective from Craig, or brainwashed pro-Nike swill?
Editor's note: We've changed the title of this thread. It was initially entitled, "Craig Engels in Runners World."
This thread causes some difficulties for the ordinary East African bashers.
Hassan is exactly the kind of athlete who is targeted by these posters. Craig is exactly the kind of athlete who these posters revere.
When an athlete like Craig protects an athlete like Hassan what does the Letsrunner do?
Well it looks like they say “oh poor Craig he is so simple and happy go lucky he doesn’t understand” and decide that they know more than the athlete from the same camp.
Lol
You are not very bright. Hassan and Engels are both likely cheating. Engels is likely in your category in terms of smarts.
Sick and tired of it! wrote:
ezrzerze wrote:
Craig clearly doesn't know how this works.
Lance was the most tested on the planet.
If Hassan gets tested 8 times in 3 weeks, that's not proof that she is clean, it's because the testers know she is dirty and she is gaming the system.
Again, this is why the sport is a joke to most of the world.
If you are fast, you are doping.
If you are charismatic and open, you are stupid and gullible.
If you pass every drug test ever, it's doesn't matter because Lance Armstrong did the same.
I wish I could throat punch ever one of you motherfuckers that are ruining our sport!
You sound like someone who is relatively new here; a piece of advice.
That stinking thinking is the LRC, which in the greater athletics' community is a highly vocal minority...not everyone thinks that way. In fact, I suspect most LRC members don't think that way, calling practically all elites a doper is a popular refrain amount about 2 dozen posters. There are definitely dopers in our sport that need to be called out when it is appropriate, but when an athlete is clean, talented and does all of the right things to achieve success...being called dirty hurts more than the LRC understands.
letsrun police wrote:
neanderthal wrote:
Yada, yada
I just reported your comment/post.
FAQ
Q:What does this mean?
A: Your comment and/or post will be reviewed by moderators and possibly removed from the forum.
....
Q: Am I banned from letsrun.com?
A: No ....
....
LetsRun ENCOURAGES slander and rudeness in their forums. It is clickbait that they can plausibly claim as some anonymous poster that they can't control nor can the police the entire forum. How long have you been here?
That'sRich wrote:
letsrun police wrote:
I just reported your comment/post.
FAQ
Q:What does this mean?
A: Your comment and/or post will be reviewed by moderators and possibly removed from the forum.
....
Q: Am I banned from letsrun.com?
A: No ....
....
LetsRun ENCOURAGES slander and rudeness in their forums. It is clickbait that they can plausibly claim as some anonymous poster that they can't control nor can the police the entire forum. How long have you been here?
Not only encourage it, they start it! Have you heard the questions they ask athletes at press conferences. They all seem to insinuate drugs.
ezrzerze wrote:
Craig clearly doesn't know how this works.
Lance was the most tested on the planet.
If Hassan gets tested 8 times in 3 weeks, that's not proof that she is clean, it's because the testers know she is dirty and she is gaming the system.
Maybe the test results for certain athletes just get swept under the carpet, so it does not really matter whether you are testing them or not ....
Does anyone actually believe that she was tested 8 times in 3 weeks?
That would be extremely unusual; even the most suspicious runners don't get tested 20 times per years.
doping watcher II wrote:
Does anyone actually believe that she was tested 8 times in 3 weeks?
That would be extremely unusual; even the most suspicious runners don't get tested 20 times per years.
I believe that they were written True or False Tests!
doping watcher II wrote:
Does anyone actually believe that she was tested 8 times in 3 weeks?
That would be extremely unusual; even the most suspicious runners don't get tested 20 times per years.
... lol yes they do. Remember when Centro was tested 17 times?
TrackCoach wrote:
Sick and tired of it! wrote:
Again, this is why the sport is a joke to most of the world.
If you are fast, you are doping.
If you are charismatic and open, you are stupid and gullible.
If you pass every drug test ever, it's doesn't matter because Lance Armstrong did the same.
I wish I could throat punch ever one of you motherfuckers that are ruining our sport!
You sound like someone who is relatively new here; a piece of advice.
That stinking thinking is the LRC, which in the greater athletics' community is a highly vocal minority...not everyone thinks that way. In fact, I suspect most LRC members don't think that way, calling practically all elites a doper is a popular refrain amount about 2 dozen posters. There are definitely dopers in our sport that need to be called out when it is appropriate, but when an athlete is clean, talented and does all of the right things to achieve success...being called dirty hurts more than the LRC understands.
great points. unfortunately the perception created by the anonymous, unauthenticated letsrun message boards it that everyone thinks like that. so while it's true that the majority of letsrun VISITORS are not ruining the sport, letsrun the website is creating the perception of a toxic fan base, which in turn harms the sport.
how dare you.... wrote:
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
Many of the "hardest working" people, like Lance Armstrong, El Guerrouj, Marion Jones, etc. were able to work so hard and put in tremendous training amounts and "superhero-sessions" (whether in winning race after race in the TdF or doing all runs at sub 5 pace like El G) BECAUSE of the PEDs.
Don't go grouping El G with Lance and Marion Jones. I understand what you're saying and agree being on drugs is what allows people to do crazy workouts like Engels is talking about, but El G was never sanctioned like the two athletes you sandwiched him next to. Have some respect and stop being a clown every single time you post.
El G was a science experiment. His coach (Kada) was blamed for the doping of Driouch. His training partners were busted. He set other worldly records in a no holds barred epo era.
Honk honk.
In my opinion, Engels is simply aware that Hassan is the complete package... hard worker, tough as nails, great attitude, genetic freak, etc. Say what you want about Alberto Salazar, but one thing is for sure... he is amazing when it comes to scouting talent. He knew Rupp was special. He knew Mo was special. He knew Hassan was special. And he likely knew that Hassan was his brightest talent yet.
God-tier talent + the world’s best coach = no need for cheating.
And fwiw, I put the chances of Salazar cheating after the investigation began at near zero. And I do not think he would risk coaching her unless he is 100% sure she is clean. His “experiments” had already gotten him in such deep trouble that he would have to be a complete idiot to try anything like that in the past few years.
Clown control wrote:
how dare you.... wrote:
Don't go grouping El G with Lance and Marion Jones. I understand what you're saying and agree being on drugs is what allows people to do crazy workouts like Engels is talking about, but El G was never sanctioned like the two athletes you sandwiched him next to. Have some respect and stop being a clown every single time you post.
El G was a science experiment. His coach (Kada) was blamed for the doping of Driouch. His training partners were busted. He set other worldly records in a no holds barred epo era.
Honk honk.
+1
I don't think some of these posters research doping & athletics very well. El G is as about as suspicious as they come:
First of all, Morocco has had an extensive history of doping over the last two decades.
- El G's training partner and pace setter, Adil Kaouch, was busted for EPO.
- Their 3rd fastest 1500 man, Ramzi (3:29:14) was busted for CERA (though Ramzi
"officially" ran for Bahrain, he trained for about half the year in Morocco and
probably had his doping program overseen by a Moroccan coach).
- Their 5th fastest 1500 man, Amine Laâlou (3:29.53) was busted twice for doping
(the first one for a masking agent & the second one for EP0. Lol).
And finally this report on the Moroccan doping problem:
https://lawm.sportschau.de/doha2019/nachrichten/Morocco-A-paradise-for-sports-cheats,lawmdoha1138.htmlThis forum is absolutely fascinating, just hundreds of absolutely terrible people being awful.
Amazing.