Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 10/20/19

Sub6 - Those MP runs are hard. I basically wear my actual marathon stuff and treat it like it's race day, it's the only way I can get fired up enough to do those. Congrats on Chicago, also, a 225 would have won Shamrock last year, that's a March marathon if you're interested.

Napper - Thank you and congratulations on Chicago also. If you can find a flat and fast December marathon, then go for it!

Guy Broman - Thanks and good luck with the ankle. I spend more time with my ice pack than with my wife.

Coach Jeff - Thanks, I like the program too! It's hard to find time and mental energy for 2 big workouts every week but if you can, I think it's great. Splits were between 658 and 712, it was really windy so I'll take it, last split was 705. Good luck this week, confidence builder for sure!

Stat- Around here it's either hilly trails, dangerous roads, or the track, so for important runs that need good and uninterrupted efforts I sometimes go to the track. I know tracks can make you feel faster than you really are, but it is always windy at this track, which makes it harder. And the backstretch at Philadelphia is windy, so I think of it as being good preparation.

Thanks for the well wishes. It is def Sciatica (sucker is clenched somewhere) as it has settled in my lower left back .. Piriformis/glute/hamstring area actually feels really good. As soon as something back there un kinks I should be good to go.

Male, 26, 6’4”, 143lbs

PRs: 4:54 (mile), 16:56, 1:18:00, 28:01 (8k 2015), 2:47:14 (all 2018 but 8k)

Goal: Club XC Nationals 10k: ~35min 10k

Mn - 6.25 @ 6:30s, 8x12s hill sprints

Tu - 2x2400, 4x800 w/ WU/WD = 9.75

Wd - Off

Th - 5k in 18:16 w/ WU/WD = 8 (first 3 WU at 6:40s)

Fr - 6.5 @ 6:45s (first 3 @ 6:25 then ran into/with friends)

Sa - 8 @ 7:50s (w/ wife)

Su - 12 @ 7:10s, 8x15s strides

Total - 50

Tu 9:01 9:00 2:54 2:47 2:43 2:53 w/ 400 rec after 2400s and 2min after 800s. purposely slower on that last one

Th - final of a 7 series race over the last 7 months, ~20s slow course, was in the dark with headlamp and dressed as fungus from monsters inc (hard hat included)

Tried to keep my nonworkout days quick but ended up running with people more than I thought I would, plus all those runs were on energy-sucking loose stone

Planning to bump up mileage this next week(70?), decided to focus training on Club Nationals in December (10k). Willing to follow somebodies guidance on training if they want, otherwise will continue to make it up as I go

-RS

Thanks all for the advice and motivation re: running higher mileage. I tend to agree that I shouldn't write off higher mileage. I'm considering trying it similar to the way Darkwave does it (similar to the Benji Durden hard-easy method), where I get 50+ MPW but on only 4 days of running at times, and cross train hard with my cycling.

Calf is starting to feel better with the cycling focus, going to try for something short tomorrow and continue to ride the bike a lot this week. Maybe try to get 30ish miles + 8-10h on the bike this week.

I never finish a successfully executed quality day without one.

Penalized for adding mileage to the front end. The pursuit of the True Flyer is a cruel mistress. I'll be back.

Thanks. I think a lot of it continues to be beginners luck...building the wall up over the last 3-4 years. There is definitely an early year speed work element too that I've discussed before, and I'm the lightest I've been since I won an office weight loss challenge almost 8 years ago. Only maybe 5 pounds less than Chicago right now, but I think that's closer to 10lbs less than at my spring half this year, and my wife told me last week it's the fittest I've looked since we got married 7.5 years ago. So I've got that going for me, which is nice.

Going to save any more extensive retrospective until after a race result. Conclusions drawn with 3 weeks to race day will come back to haunt a person.

Hoping to get around to comments for everyone this week but it could get busy so wanted to make sure I definitely give a shout out to drcrusher, darkwave and thoughtsleader for great races.

Double shout out to thoughtsleader because I love those first sub3s (but dude...you gotta trade in the phone for a watch. I think I have an old TomTom in a drawer somewhere. Do you need me to send it to you? (seriously)).

In regards to me being dumb and taking the workout class, I definitely won't be jumping into anymore ahaha. I was bailing on taper weeks upcoming to save me from the stupidity. I know peer pressure is bad but it was my boss, his/her boss, and his/her boss so I felt the urge to earn some social points. Thankfully I'm starting to bounce back from all the soreness!

Stone: Very strong Tu/Sa quality days, love it

Mrs. Stone: Also very strong work, gotta be feeling great with that kind of fitness 7 weeks out!

Coach Jeff: Will definitely be seeking you out for that run if I get to Taipei! And nothing like a breezy easy long to round out the week

RRR: Was getting so excited over that monster week and workouts -- bummed to hear about the twinge. Hope you can get that fixed up ASAP! Can't wait for you to race in good health

GT: Helluva Flyer!

LancRunner: Beautifully even 800s on Friday

slo: Jesus what a big week coming off of the HM race. So many big weeks one after another -- taper is going to do you very very well I bet

OR: Another fantastic week. Love that cool down feel after some tempo work, feels like floating on some pretty fast pace

Pappy: Nice work on the 4mile race! Great adjustment on the fast open

Sub 6:00: Weird seeing such low numbers in your post :). Hope you're enjoying the time off!

Napper: If not another full marathon, maybe a even giant half PR to cap off the year?

GNR1: Good luck next weekend!

BHViking: Nice week! Lotta volume and good work

stat: Really strong Tu/Sa work

drcrusher: I'd say you're very much keeping the mojo going strong! Awesome race and performance, keep the hunger fueling a big PR takedown at Philly!

Thoughtsleader: Way to absolutely crush it! Loved the report, so excited for your success!

RGM: Next year will be an exciting year! Look forward to following speed/hill work and seeing how it pays off!

darkwave: Congrats on the PR! I wouldn't worry too much, there's been enough extremely strong work over the last weeks to give you an indicator of your 26.2 fitness. One rougher race shouldn't derail that!

RunnerSam: Pretty incredible 5K with a lamp and a custom haha, sounds like tons of fun!

Gordon Tremeshko wrote:

Hoping to get around to comments for everyone this week but it could get busy so wanted to make sure I definitely give a shout out to drcrusher, darkwave and thoughtsleader for great races.

Double shout out to thoughtsleader because I love those first sub3s (but dude...you gotta trade in the phone for a watch. I think I have an old TomTom in a drawer somewhere. Do you need me to send it to you? (seriously)).

Ha thanks and yup ( I would take you up lol). The younger version of me would be like what are you doing? As I’ve come back to running I do like some background noise and even treadmill running(!?), but for races I know I should be going light and getting a watch for splits. My last one just ran out of batteries and I’ve been tremendously lazy in replacing it. I should correct that issue soon and just order a timex.

TL - FWIW, I do 90%+ of my runs in a Timex. I much prefer this. The trail I run has reliable half mile markers, so I can easily track time & distance, or just go by time & guestimate. The majority of the time, I'm probably doing a couple miles where I don't look at time, with a few just to confirm time. Other days, I'm clicking as I pass every mile so I have the data. No way to tell for sure, but I'd guess my times estimates are 98%+ accurate. Days on the track / race results reveal the real story anyway. Agree with GT though, the phone is no way to go.

DW - Hey, that's a great race, even if it's not the result you wanted. Your body of work has been REALLY impressive, and that's the most important thing come peak race day. I laid an egg at a half last year (1:30:30 on tired legs) that fell 15 days before my marathon. I broke 3 the day that counted.

M39 6-6 185

M 8.7

T 4 x 3200T (5:43/5:43 - 5:44/5:41 - 5:44/5:42 - 5:43/5:29.7) - 13 total

W 8.2

Th 10 miles w 20 x 1:00 on/1:00 off FARTlek (dedicated to JB)

F 10.2

S 20 @ 7:10 avg

S off - fishing

70.1 miles total

Third week post-Berlin. Legs still a bit sluggish but starting to feel normal again. Tempo Tuesday went well enough that I registered for the full at Indy just before it filled up. I’m not 100% sure I will actually run it but it’s an option if the next 3 weeks go well and I get my family on board. On Saturday i had in mind a 10E/10M workout but after 5 miles at ~6:25 (20 seconds off my M pace) i decided to just coast on in. Sunday was the worst fishing day of my life. Fished from sunrise to sunset and caught zero fish. It doesn’t get any worse than that. Beats a any day in the office though.

BHV - Your training is looking super. Could you refresh my memory on any recent times or PRs?

@darkwave I'm definitely an optimist, but I'm seeing that performance being almost all related to health challenges. To PR despite all that was going on, feels like a great sign of things to me. With time to rest up, it's clear your fitness is really good and without health hiccups a great marathon should come.

@RGM I'm going to buy one this week. I still think for easy runs I'll indulge myself with some podcasts on my phone, but I am done with it for race-days! I've never really cared about pace, I was more tracking for distance and just making sure I didn't go out too fast on typical runs.

Stone - nice quality sessions this week

jot quill - still lookin good for CIM

RRR - sorry about the piriformis

GT - I like the train nickname with the headlamp and nice flyer

NiceGuy - maybe tone down the pace on some easy days for injury risk reduction?

Lanc - Since my new time is 2s slower I was thinking it would have been a lower percent, must be different AG version. Anyway nice job getting in miles on a busy & travel week

slo - solid 5x3mi workout, that's a long one. I agree with all that intensity over 2 weeks, hopefully the taper does you well

OR - looks like you are good to go, stay healthy

Pappy - glad the 4 miler went better than expected

Napper - make sure you feel recovered before signing up for another marathon, that being said I have a friend who has always PRd on his 2nd or 3rd marathon of the season

Sub 6 - looking forward to the postmortem, always fun to do

GNR1 - Planning on throwing in some speed work along with the longer intervals and tempos? (admittedly I haven't memorized all your previous weeks but I seem to remember mostly longer workouts)

drcrusher - 8 seconds off a PR is still pretty good, not statistically different than just under imo. good motivation for philly

RunGuy Midwest - cool sutff @ the 50 miler, Ive been doing one ultra(50M-100k) a year for 6 years now, still searching for age 26 ultra

Darkwave - hopefully a better week leading up to Indy, looks like you were unlucky this week. even with it still a PR so It's not all bad

I officially deferred Philly today, 2019 has been fairly lame apart from my 16:58 5k(running-wise). slight chance I can put together enough training for a good Club XC Nats showing. I'd say my motivation is back though, looking forward to putting in the miles and prepping for Spring Track. I've enjoyed being part of this group for the last 1.5 years. Helps me confirm the time and effort I've put into this sport. Hope everybody is having a splendid week

- RunnerSam

Great work, Thoughtsleader!!!

As I was reading through your race report, I was very worried at the 14-21 segment where you took a chance and picked up the pace with no one following you. I can imagine what was going on in your mind when you lost the ability to peak at your pace/progress. That might have been a bit scary. At least for me, I tend to lose the ability to judge actual pace by feel when extremely fatigued.

Outstanding time and finish!!

outsiderunner wrote:

BHV - Your training is looking super. Could you refresh my memory on any recent times or PRs?

Thanks, OR! The training does seem to be coming along nicely as of late. Probably my best ever since I picked up running about 3.5 years ago.

Recent history:

2018 Phoenix Mesa (first half cheating downhill) - 2:50:39

2019 Ridiculously Downhill Revel Vegas - Split Half 1:17:05 (but massive cheating downhill) then DNF'd with severe blisters leading to calf issues

2019 Deadwood Mickelson Half - 1:25:52 (Had not recovered from Vegas disaster - should have DNS - very stupid)

2019 CIM - ?

No clue to what to expect for CIM, but hoping to use it as a practice race for future marathons in which I hope to have increased fitness.

BHViking wrote:

Great work, Thoughtsleader!!!

As I was reading through your race report, I was very worried at the 14-21 segment where you took a chance and picked up the pace with no one following you. I can imagine what was going on in your mind when you lost the ability to peak at your pace/progress. That might have been a bit scary. At least for me, I tend to lose the ability to judge actual pace by feel when extremely fatigued.

Outstanding time and finish!!

Thanks BH! Yeah after mile 15 it was slight uneasiness but it wasn't bothering me a ton. For a few miles I knew my pace wasn't changing much, and the course not having major hills helped with the ability to keep a rhythm. It was really after mile 21 as it really started hurting when my mind really started going wild. I knew my pace was somewhere between 6:45 and 7:40, but if someone had told me anywhere in that range I would've believed it. It certainly in my mind felt like it was at best 7:20-7:30 pace because I felt like I was constricted as far as my stride and felt way worse than earlier in the race. Apparently not so much. Afterwards, I kinda batted around in my head if hearing feedback at that point would've helped or hurt. I guess I'd be encouraged I was still running 6:50s...but a 7 minute mile might've been a psychological blow (and maybe there was a 7:01 in there).

@RunnerSam: Missed out on chance to comment but I've run at Lehigh for Paul Short and that is a place to make some time if the weather is right. I actually never popped a good race there, but that was purely on me and my college XC struggles. Really cool course and scene.

A shout out to this past weekend's racers.

drcrusher - While you are a bit off your all time PR it is cool that you were able to come so to your PR close as a masters runner.

darkwave - Sorry to hear of your pre race maladies. Still a good race result considering the circumstances and you are inching closer to that sub 1:24.

THOUGHTSLEADER - Congrats on the sub 3 and on the BQ. Boston 2021 might be an interesting one because it is the 125th year of the Boston Marathon. I do have some feedback on your training if you are interested. I think it is possible for you to improve your marathon time enough to register in the first week and almost guarantee acceptance.

I hope to start posting regularly soon, but I'm stuck in cross training mode while I am rehabbing an injury that is keeping me off my feet at the moment.

I've been following the thread a bit sparsely without posting and really happy w/ everyone beating their PRs and reaching their goals :)

As for me, I won my first race ever last weekend, and get ready to update my age graded result this weekend with a half marathon that I'm running! Training's been going well and I'm very confident.

Also, is anyone going to race valencia?

Still Improving wrote:

THOUGHTSLEADER - Congrats on the sub 3 and on the BQ. Boston 2021 might be an interesting one because it is the 125th year of the Boston Marathon. I do have some feedback on your training if you are interested. I think it is possible for you to improve your marathon time enough to register in the first week and almost guarantee acceptance.

Would love to hear!