Most of us agree Bekele is the GOAT, right?

If we aren't including the 800 (in which case Rudisha would be in the top 5 for sure), I think the T5 is like this:

1. Bekele: 4 Olympic medals (3 gold, 1 silver), 6 WC medals (5 gold, 1 bronze), 1 WC indoor title, 12 WXC medals (11 gold, 1 silver), 5000/10000 WRs, 6th all-time in the 3000m, 2nd all-time in the marathon. Record speaks for itself, nobody is close to him.

2. Geb

3. Kipchoge

4. Farah

5. Tergat

My bad I was thinking over 1500 (so 3000+).

If we're including 1500 El G has gotta be #2 IMO, right after Bekele.

facts and reason wrote:

be serious wrote:

You can't have the hardware Farah does and the times and not be in the discussion for top 10, probably even top 5 ever.

Mohamed Farah ran in a weak era with African athletes starting to move to the marathon for prize money.

Even Centrowitz has a gold medal. Do you consider Centrowitz to be one of the greatest top 5 runners ever in the 1,500?

I guess if centro has the same number of world and Olympic gold as Farah then yes.

These are my thoughts practically verbatim. It'll be tough for me to think anyone other than Geb is the greatest except for what you said in your last line. The megawatt smile and gregariousness as the face of long distance running is what puts him over the top. He even has a Disney movie (Endurance) and book (The Greatest) all about him (both of which I have).

Star wrote:

I think I'm finally ready to pass the mantle from Gebreselassie to Bekele.

Geb had a great number of years of world class times and I needed to see Bekele do something fast at an older age.

A 2:01 marathon did that for me.

Geb was world champion at 10,000m in 1993, ran the first sub 2:04 marathon in 2008 and still put up a 27:20 10,000 and 2:08 marathon in 2012.

That's a 20 year range.

His PR when he won the 10K title in 1993 was 27:30. He ran 26:51 in 2008. Who's faster 15 years after winning a world title?

He brought distance running to a whole new level all by himself.

He smashed records and had a fierce kick in slow races.

I take it back. Geb's the best.

Bekele has to win gold next year or run faster than Kipchoge.

facts and reason wrote:

be serious wrote:

You can't have the hardware Farah does and the times and not be in the discussion for top 10, probably even top 5 ever.

Mohamed Farah ran in a weak era with African athletes starting to move to the marathon for prize money.

Even Centrowitz has a gold medal. Do you consider Centrowitz to be one of the greatest top 5 runners ever in the 1,500?

I am not a Farah fan, but surely any knob can see the difference between Centrowitz and a man who has ...

TEN Global Champs golds (and 2 silvers) and ...

FIVE Euro Champs golds (and one silver) and ...

has won the Chicago Marathon in 2:05:11, and ...

has been third and sixth in London with 2:06 and 2:05:39?

He holds the European Record for 1500m, 2 miles, 10,000m and Marathon.

John Harding's list is correct.

facts and reason wrote:

be serious wrote:

You can't have the hardware Farah does and the times and not be in the discussion for top 10, probably even top 5 ever.

Mohamed Farah ran in a weak era with African athletes starting to move to the marathon for prize money.

Even Centrowitz has a gold medal. Do you consider Centrowitz to be one of the greatest top 5 runners ever in the 1,500?

1 gold medal? lol count the medals for Farah bro

Sammy Wanjiru GOAT

End thread

can't believe how El G isn't being mentioned here. I don't like the guy and think he was prob the most doped runner ever but his achievements/potential were ridiculous.

- Unmatched for a decade in the most important distance

- Prob a sub 1:43 800m guy for a decade as well, would've medalled many times had he competed

- IMO could've been the most successful 5k runner ever if he stuck to it instead of retiring. Bekele/Kipchoge basically had to run near perfect time trials to try to keep him from kicking to victory and it wasn't even his best distance

- closest to Komen's WR

- looked less tired than anyone ever after putting up ridiculous times

Things I'm looking for (in order): 1) Dominance of event(s) 2) Hardware 3) WR(s) 4) PR's 5) range across at least 3 events (1500m, 3k, 5k, 10k, Marathon) 6) WMM/XC/Indoor credentials

1) Bekele

2) Gebresellasie

3) Kipchoge

4) El G

5) Farah

Hardware: no junior and area championships, Olympic/WIC/WOC/WXC/WHM/WMM top 3's only

Major Titles: WC/OLY Outdoor, Olympic Marathon Golds only

fWR= former WR

1) Bekele (3k-Marathon) 3:32/7:25/12:37(WR)/26:17(WR)/1:00:09 HM/2:01:41

Hardware: 3 Olympic Gold, 1 Silver /5 WOC Golds, 1 Bronze / 1 WIC Gold / 11 WXC Golds, 1 Silver / 2 WMM Gold, 1 Silver, 1 Bronze

Major Titles: 8 titles

Case: I'm sorry if you disagree with him being #1, but you can't please everyone. After his marathon in Berlin, it would take a mountain of evidence to convince me that he's not undeniably the GOAT. 2 main distance event WR's and A LOT of hardware. In addition to his outdoor track creds, he's the GOAT of XC, has a WIC Gold in his only WIC, a few WMM wins, and he's 2 s off the marathon WR after years of setbacks.

2) Gebresellasie (1500m-Marathon): 3:31i(fWR)/7:25/12:39(fWR)/26:22(fWR)/58:55 HM/2:03:59(fWR)

Hardware: 2 Olympic Gold / 4 WC Gold, 2 Silver, 1 Bronze / World Half Gold / 4 WIC Gold (undefeated) / HM Gold / 1 WXC Bronze, 4 WMM Gold, 1 Bronze

Major Titles: 6

Case: He gets the nod over El G based on versatility. Until this year he had the iWR for 1500m and had the fWR in the marathon. While his WR's fell to Bekele and Kipchoge, he still held all 3 5k, 10k, and 'thon. Kipchoge wasn't close to WR's in the 5k/10k and if you add major titles + WMM, him and Kipchoge have 10 so I'll give the nod to Haile based on track PR's, but Kipchoge looks more unbeatable at the 'thon than Haile so this was a VERY close call.

3) Kipchoge (5k-Marathon) 3:33/7:27/12:46/26:49/59:25 HM/2:01:39(WR)

Hardware: 1 Olympic Gold, 1 Silver, 1 Bronze / 1 WOC Gold, 1 Silver / 1 WIC Bronze / 8 WMM Gold, 1 Silver (winner got WR)

Major Titles: 2

Case: WR in an iconic event, 8 WMM gives him the nod over El G in event dominance but close. Even if you go to second most dominant event with El G, Kipchoge has 3 5k medals and a faster PR vs El G with his Olympic Gold in 2004.

4) El G (1500m-5k) 3:26(WR)/3:43 mile(WR)/4:44 2k(WR)/7:23/12:50

Hardware: 2 Olympic Gold, 1 Silver / 4 WOC Gold, 2 Silver / 3 WIC Gold (undefeated)

Major Titles: 6

Case: He gets the nod over Farah. Look I know I value hardware, but in terms of WR's/PR's, Farah is just way off the mark. El G has a major WR (1500m), 2 others (mile/2k), and showed strength running 7:23 (#2 AT behind Komen)/12:50. El G's 1500m has still not been touched and has the longest standing WR between these 5. Also not that many recent 1500m runners have been able to be competitive at 5k (PR faster than Farah) let alone an Olympic Gold doubling back from a 1500m over the 2nd fastest man in history (Lagat) I understand Farah ran 3:28, but his 5k and 10k PR's don't even match that. And ever since he won his 1st global title (2011 WC 5k) his refusal to go after a fast time and failed attempts in the 5k/10k bothers me. His 5k/10k are from BEFORE his first world title. Farah has no XC, indoor, or road medals.

5) Mo Farah (1500m-Marathon): 3:28/7:32/8:03i 2M (WR)/12:53/26:46

Hardware: 4 Olympic Gold / 6 WC Gold, 2 Silver / 1 WMM Gold, 1 Bronze / WHM Bronze

Major Titles: 10

Case: Mostly stated in El G case. The reason for him getting a nod over several athletes deserving of #6-#10 probably due to 10 major titles. Just not enough to put him higher than El G or the top #3 here.

This analysis took me a while, but probably still made some mistakes. Feel free to make corrections or give me your take.

Great analysis, thanks you for the good summary. I agree with it overall, especially for the first 4 of your top.

Mo Farah is a special case. Not only its sudden progression is very suspicious, but in addition, I am not convinced he was a greater runner than let's say Sihine or Tergat.

Seriously mate? wrote:

Say Bekele doesn’t break the marathon world record but wins gold in the Tokyo Olympics marathon. GOAT?

Already the GOAT.

Marathon GOAT? No. Maybe if he ran a legit sub 2, or if he beat Kipchoge in fast races several times he could be in that discussion.

EssosLindi wrote:

Great analysis, thanks you for the good summary. I agree with it overall, especially for the first 4 of your top.

Mo Farah is a special case. Not only its sudden progression is very suspicious, but in addition, I am not convinced he was a greater runner than let's say Sihine or Tergat.

It is suspicious. I realize El G never tested positive but a lot of suspicion around him. I was looking at Bekele's 5k progression early on in his career as well. 2001 (13:13), 2002 (13:26), 2003 (12:52), 2004 (12:37 WR). Not the same case as Farah who had been established and much older, but still interesting.

EssosLindi wrote:

Great analysis, thanks you for the good summary. I agree with it overall, especially for the first 4 of your top.

Mo Farah is a special case. Not only its sudden progression is very suspicious, but in addition, I am not convinced he was a greater runner than let's say Sihine or Tergat.

I would contend that Tergat would of taken Farah in every Olympic 10k they raced. Tergat has a faster PR. Tergat is only second to Bekele in XC greatness. Along with he a one point held the world record in the marathon. The only thing going against Tergat was that his era was the same as Geb.

Tergat was much much greater than Farah.

You can all scratch off doped cheater Farah who’s only talent is drug cheating and winning SLOW sit and kick races. Total garbage!

John Wesley Harding wrote:

Yes, at least from 1500-marathon in the past 30 years or so, Bekele’s #1.

1. Bekele

2. Gebrsellassie

3. Kipchoge

4. El Guerrouj

5. Farah

1. Bekele

2. Gebresellssie

3. Rupp

Semidelicious wrote:

Sammy Wanjiru GOAT

End thread

Wanjiru ran the greatest marathon of all time, but that doesn't make him the overall GOAT.

Bekele is the 5K-10K GOAT hands down. And certainly for the 5K and up distance runner GOAT overall.

But Kipchoge is the marathon GOAT hands down. Kipchoge's records, success on major stages, and consistency is unparalleled at the marathon.

Bekele has won Paris once and Berlin twice. But he had to drop out of three or four marathons and has finished third to sixth at several others, including those he lost to Kipchoge. Kipchoge meanwhile was won London four times, Berlin three times with one runner up (his only loss - to world record at time), Chicago once, Rotterdam once, Hamburg once, has an Olympic marathon gold, and ran the first sub 2 ever. Kipchoge has the three fastest times ever run over a marathon distance and four of the top five (Bekele having the other one). Kipchoge has run 2:05:00 or faster a dozen times. Bekele has done it twice.

Bekele is in the discussion for #2 at marathon and you can make a strong argument for him there. But #1 at marathon - there is no discussion. Its Kipchoge.