What if van Niekirk had ran a second lap after doing his 400m WR of 43.03??

If I had listened to the guys on here WR would have been mine easy.

thinking back to the 80s wrote:

Edwin Moses/Morehouse wrote:

Edwin Moses is not a good example in this discussion. He has a 45.60 F.A.T. 400m P.B. Not an elite 400m runner. Morehouse has a traditon of asking their 400m/400mH men to race XC. Sebastian Coe and Edwin Moses are only app. 13 months apart in age. Peter Coe was engaging in psychological operations. Peter Coe was basically saying to Moses: Don't even think about it.

Am I suppose to believe Sebastian Coe was well suited for 800m because he has a 46.87 F.A.T. 400m P.B. but Moses with his 45.60 400 P.B. was ill suited? Nonsense.

Throughout his career Edwin Moses claimed he could run elite times at all distances from 100 to 800 meters. It was all talk and he never did any of it.

Good thing, most likely 400mH is an Olympic event and W.C. event. If there were no 400mH, Moses would have trained as a 400m/800m man as a teenager. I have absolutely no doubt Moses would have been a sub-1:45 800m man if he were a 400m/800m man from his college years. How much lower than 1:45.00 800m, none of know. Moses: 1:48.98 800m P.B. while training as a 400m/400mH athlete. What were you saying about Alberto Juantorena's 800m potential late fall, 1972 after 1972 Summer Olympics?

Nominative as past participle is irregular in English. Grammar Nazis will be forced to admit that the participle is normally formed from the preterite. "had run" is a relic of ancient forms that are doomed to extinction as the language evolves. And no self-described language expert dare stand against the natural evolution of usage, or be exposed as a fraud!

These forums are the avant-garde of English-speaking running talk, and we have normalized "had ran." Quit complaining.

WhatIf??? wrote:

So the world record set for the 400m is 43.03 set by Van Niekirk.

The 800m world record is 1:40.91 set by David Rudisha in 2012.

What would have happened had WVN decided to carry on running?

58 seconds to complete a second lap for someone of WVN ability seems pretty easy.

I know this is true of most WR looking like this, but the gap seems disproportionately big between 400 & 800 WR.

And we have a winner for the uninformed poster of the day. Put very simply he would not have broken 2min on that day. And by that, I mean for the 2nd lap, not the 800. I know that seems ridiculous but being as spent as he was no way he even maintains 6 min pace. Remember he is a sprinter, once your wad is spent game over. Now if Wade had runs a 55-sec lap can he come back and run sub 2 min in the 800? Probably.

I will say I've seen some pretty exceptional blow-ups when 400m specialists try to run 800's though. Even when running a reasonable 800m pace they look great through 400m because the pace is so slow for them, then around 550m or 600m, the elephant jumps on their back and all of a sudden it is just painful to watch. Sure every now and then there is a 400 guy who can transition to a decent 800m and some of the best 800m runners can be world-class in the 400m. But most world-class sprinters see a very steep decline/cliff once they exceed a certain distance.

Yes of course he could break the WR

46.xx is a JOG for him. Coming back in 53 would be even easier.

Athletes trained as sprinters can give 800m specialists a great fight at 600yds. which is very close to the 550m you stated. Elite 800m specialists will beat elite sprinters at 600m if both are near top fitness. Athletes trained as sprinters cannot beat elite 800m athletes at the distance of 800m. If sprinters decide to do a hybrid 400/800 training program, who knows. Those indoor 600 yard races in 1970's were exciting. No one knew if the sprinter or if the 800m runner was going to win.

Van Niekerk is famous for leaving absolutely nothing in the tank. If he'd tried to run a second lap it would have taken ten minutes because he would have had to stop for a lie down.

He's the much better there. If he trained for it I'm sure he would set the 800 record. Just like a lot of 400 guys.

Because this place is more about distance y'all don't comprehend that the lesser athletes run longer distances lol. It's just the way it's always been.

I genuinely believe he would not finish that 2nd lap

He would be on stretcher after another 50 m or so. Heck, WVN was on a stretcher after some 400m races.

There have been 400/800 runners like Harbig and Juantorena and of course many more on not such a high level. It's not that we need to guess which 400m times or first lap times correspond to which 800m times. We have plenty of data from actual runners and races. Neither is it the case that 400m confers a higher status so runners would prefer to stick to it, even if they could run the 800m as good or better.

ThatAverageRunner wrote:

I genuinely believe he would not finish that 2nd lap

Yeah people aren't being severe enough on this thread. The answer isn't slows to run 1:50 or 2:00 even.

It would take him over 3 minutes just for the second lap if he got round at all

ex-runner wrote:

ThatAverageRunner wrote:

I genuinely believe he would not finish that 2nd lap

Yeah people aren't being severe enough on this thread. The answer isn't slows to run 1:50 or 2:00 even.

It would take him over 3 minutes just for the second lap if he got round at all

Yep, the better question would be if he could even finish a 2nd lap without walking? My guess is no, he'd have to walk almost immediately... then after 15-20 seconds he could jog the rest and finish that next lap in probably 2:15-2:45 range for a total time of 3 minutes+ for 800m.

He DID run a 2nd lap after his WR and this is what happened...

He removed his spikes, draped a RSA flag across his shoulders, kissed the girl in the front row, was stopped by Usain Bolt for a congratulatory hug, waived at the crowds in the stands and at the cameras, knelt by the timing board for the obligatory photo with the time.

VroomVroom wrote:

He's the much better there. If he trained for it I'm sure he would set the 800 record. Just like a lot of 400 guys.

Because this place is more about distance y'all don't comprehend that the lesser athletes run longer distances lol. It's just the way it's always been.

The idiotic things on this site never cease to amaze me. I'm pretty sure that someone who makes an Olympic Final in the 400 but fails to medal consecutively would switch to training to the 800 if they knew they had a chance of meddling.

WhatIf??? wrote:

So the world record set for the 400m is 43.03 set by Van Niekirk.

The 800m world record is 1:40.91 set by David Rudisha in 2012.

What would have happened had WVN decided to carry on running?

58 seconds to complete a second lap for someone of WVN ability seems pretty easy.

I know this is true of most WR looking like this, but the gap seems disproportionately big between 400 & 800 WR.

Better question:

What if WVN didn't flush his career down the drain by playing a pickup game of soccer??