I've always been torn on Bolt because he was clearly gifted with speed and size even as a youth. But every other Jamaican during that time was dirty. And it makes sense to bury any suspicion on Bolt ala Carl Lewis as he was not only the face of track but the face of the whole Olympics.
It's crazy out there wrote:
Oh Please wrote:
As I keep saying: How do you identify dopers? By the fact they are professional athletes.
That's what it's beginning to sound like with all this crazy doping going on.
And while the attention right now is on the U.S. sprinters, another top Moroccan distance runner was just popped for EPO. ?
https://www.athleticsintegrity.org/disciplinary-process/provisional-suspensions-in-force
And another one bites the dust
LoneStarXC wrote:
It's crazy out there wrote:
That's what it's beginning to sound like with all this crazy doping going on.
And while the attention right now is on the U.S. sprinters, another top Moroccan distance runner was just popped for EPO. ?
https://www.athleticsintegrity.org/disciplinary-process/provisional-suspensions-in-forceAnd another one bites the dust
lolz i bett gary will make some lame excuse and claim EPO doesnt work yet again
c7runner7 wrote:
This was a great read. At this point legalizing PEDs under Doctor supervision is probably the best option:
1. It ensures fairness.
2. Making it legal makes it safer as athletes are required (and have legal access) to be under doctor supervision instead of just randomly injecting stuff they think helps.
3. We don’t have to debate about who is clean or not anymore.
4. Some of the older people won’t like it, but once it becomes the norm, sports will be even more exciting with great performances.
5. In some cases, doping could even be healthy and protect athletes when done properly.. ex. testosterone for distance runners when chronic endurance training has messed up testosterone/cortisol ratios.
6. This “spirit of the sport” argument is ridiculous”. Athletes use special equipment, special shoes, hire dietitians, massage therapists, chiropractors, take vitamins/supplements/herbs, fly to train in different parts of the country/world, etc all to be able to train better and enhance performance. That IS the spirit of the sport now- not accepting your genetics limitations and doing whatever possible to get the most out of your body. PED’s would just be another factor in the equation (they already are)
7. Legalizing PED use isn’t ideal, but is better than the current alternative. *And there could still be some limitations and values that you have to stay within as defined by what’s healthy/dangerous for humans.
Terrible idea. By legalizing PEDs, you would take away the chance for any clean athlete to be successful. And, you’re forgetting that people respond differently to drugs. Cathal Lombard, for example, was a high-responder to EPO. Most people wouldn’t get the same boost as he did. Legal doping would hardly level the playing field.
Whatley wrote:
Bold bolt wrote:
Everyone but Bolt comes up dirty or is caught deflecting tests and Bolt was faster than all of them and yet we are supposed to believe he was clean ??? What makes Bolt so good that all of the dirty competition wasn’t even as quick? Will he ever get busted?
How many of those guys were running a 45.3 as a HS kid, yep, none. How many of them spent years training as a 200 sprinter before ever running a 100m, yep, none of them. Who there had a 6-5 stride, yep.....0.
Bolt is like Tommie Smith who had a topend totally outerwordly, a 200/400 WR holder who once ran down Jim Hines (first sub10.00/Oly gold) on a 4x1 anchor. Bolt like Smith was simply unique.
Bob Hayes was a 5-11 195 pound footballer, he was unique. There had never been a sprinter that big and powerful (a running back). So like Smith and Bolt he also did things never seen before.
What heavyweight ever had the foot and hand speed of Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali, yep. nobody.
Every once in awhile we come across that special athlete that rarity that unique individual, that is what we have in Usain Bolt.
Special kind of stupid, aren’t you?
Bold bolt wrote:
Everyone but Bolt comes up dirty or is caught deflecting tests and Bolt was faster than all of them and yet we are supposed to believe he was clean ??? What makes Bolt so good that all of the dirty competition wasn’t even as quick? Will he ever get busted?
this is in the a sucker is born every minute category.
of course bolt was dirty, he and everyone else was on a charlie francis clone program.
meanwhile they are perfecting a new way to cheat.
its pirates of the Caribbean
i mean why not cheat, you get the suckers to pay you a lot of money, versus flipping burgers, you get hoes, and a bentley and then there is your legacy, GOAT.
PEDs are good for you,
what a bunch of frauds and suckers
Unfortunately, this wouldn't even be a discussion on this board if Bolt was white.
Oh he is dirty as the rest are. You can believe that. Anyone who thinks otherwise is incredibly naive
Whatley wrote:
Bold bolt wrote:
Everyone but Bolt comes up dirty or is caught deflecting tests and Bolt was faster than all of them and yet we are supposed to believe he was clean ??? What makes Bolt so good that all of the dirty competition wasn’t even as quick? Will he ever get busted?
How many of those guys were running a 45.3 as a HS kid, yep, none. How many of them spent years training as a 200 sprinter before ever running a 100m, yep, none of them. Who there had a 6-5 stride, yep.....0.
Bolt is like Tommie Smith who had a topend totally outerwordly, a 200/400 WR holder who once ran down Jim Hines (first sub10.00/Oly gold) on a 4x1 anchor. Bolt like Smith was simply unique.
Bob Hayes was a 5-11 195 pound footballer, he was unique. There had never been a sprinter that big and powerful (a running back). So like Smith and Bolt he also did things never seen before.
What heavyweight ever had the foot and hand speed of Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali, yep. nobody.
Every once in awhile we come across that special athlete that rarity that unique individual, that is what we have in Usain Bolt.
Bolt is truly a freak of nature. His height and stride length gave him a massive advantage over his competitors. I think it really comes down to that. If you're a freak of nature you don't need to dope.
KraftMacAndCheese wrote:
Whatley wrote:
How many of those guys were running a 45.3 as a HS kid, yep, none. How many of them spent years training as a 200 sprinter before ever running a 100m, yep, none of them. Who there had a 6-5 stride, yep.....0.
Bolt is like Tommie Smith who had a topend totally outerwordly, a 200/400 WR holder who once ran down Jim Hines (first sub10.00/Oly gold) on a 4x1 anchor. Bolt like Smith was simply unique.
Bob Hayes was a 5-11 195 pound footballer, he was unique. There had never been a sprinter that big and powerful (a running back). So like Smith and Bolt he also did things never seen before.
What heavyweight ever had the foot and hand speed of Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali, yep. nobody.
Every once in awhile we come across that special athlete that rarity that unique individual, that is what we have in Usain Bolt.
Special kind of stupid, aren’t you?
Ding! Ding! Ding!
We have a winner. The more he says, the more you will realize just how special his stupid is.
LoneStarXC wrote:
c7runner7 wrote:
This was a great read. At this point legalizing PEDs under Doctor supervision is probably the best option:
1. It ensures fairness.
2. Making it legal makes it safer as athletes are required (and have legal access) to be under doctor supervision instead of just randomly injecting stuff they think helps.
3. We don’t have to debate about who is clean or not anymore.
4. Some of the older people won’t like it, but once it becomes the norm, sports will be even more exciting with great performances.
5. In some cases, doping could even be healthy and protect athletes when done properly.. ex. testosterone for distance runners when chronic endurance training has messed up testosterone/cortisol ratios.
6. This “spirit of the sport” argument is ridiculous”. Athletes use special equipment, special shoes, hire dietitians, massage therapists, chiropractors, take vitamins/supplements/herbs, fly to train in different parts of the country/world, etc all to be able to train better and enhance performance. That IS the spirit of the sport now- not accepting your genetics limitations and doing whatever possible to get the most out of your body. PED’s would just be another factor in the equation (they already are)
7. Legalizing PED use isn’t ideal, but is better than the current alternative. *And there could still be some limitations and values that you have to stay within as defined by what’s healthy/dangerous for humans.
Terrible idea. By legalizing PEDs, you would take away the chance for any clean athlete to be successful. And, you’re forgetting that people respond differently to drugs. Cathal Lombard, for example, was a high-responder to EPO. Most people wouldn’t get the same boost as he did. Legal doping would hardly level the playing field.
No you would actually give ‘clean’ athletes the chance to be successful because now they would have the option to use the same substances everyone is already using. They could still choose not too, but at least they would have the option... the ‘chance’. Right now, people who follow the rules have a huge disadvantage people so many people cheat. You’re also assuming if they were legalized, the current ‘clean’ athletes wouldn’t use them. I bet they would. And that they wouldn’t have many negative health effects as a result if supervised properly by an expert. (Or the negative health effects wouldn’t be worse than elite training in general because running 140 mpw at 4-5% body fat is not the definition of good health.. we all make some health sacrifices to be good... think of how many elite women stop having their menstrual cycle altogether).
And yeah, some people might not respond the same... so you’re saying that nobody should be allowed to train because people respond differently to training? People respond differently to altitude, weight training, legal supplement use, etc... There are high responders and low responders to literally everything.
Again, legalizing is not ideal, but in my opinion, it would be more fair given the current situation.
Whatley wrote:
How many 6-5 sprinters run the 200m? And a 45.3 as a kid?
How many 100m sprinters spent years training as a 200m sprinter before eve running a 100m? Yep, nobody. How many had a 6-5 stride, yep...0. How many were teenage 45,3, yep, none.
The guy was simply unique and didn't need anything to beat up on those who were normal.
Bolt has had great success over 100m ... because he trained for years as a 200m sprinter. Makes a lot of sense. Maybe they should rethink the 100m training then?
Why is this even being argued? There have been numerous threads and articles for years concluding that, since the early 60's, no major gold 100 performance has been clean, and no human has run under 10 clean. I remember that was the cw as we watched Munich 72.
Didn't read whole thread, lots of repetitions.
But what about Wayde van Niekerk, smashed a record that was tainted for many years, only runner to sub 10, 20 and 44 and close to sub 43.
Conspiracy theorists will probably say he tore his ACL playing touch rugby in order to beat the drug testers.
Last I heard he had planned to return to DL this year, but had a set back with some bone bruising in knee.
After Beijing in '08 Victor Conte was asked which of the 100m finalists were on drugs. His response was - "All of them. The difference between 9.7 and 10-flat is drugs".
Yugeness wrote:
Bolt is truly a freak of nature. His height and stride length gave him a massive advantage over his competitors. I think it really comes down to that. If you're a freak of nature you don't need to dope.
After Marion Jones won 5 gold medals at Sydney they said she was a "freak of nature" - and we all know how that turned out. ?
Armstronglivs wrote:
After Beijing in '08 Victor Conte was asked which of the 100m finalists were on drugs. His response was - "All of them. The difference between 9.7 and 10-flat is drugs".
I think Conte was Sydney 2000, and Memo (in thread above) Heredia was 2008.
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/all-sydney-100m-finalists-doped/news-story/2b051a48864eb1d7be0a229230a2f448Whatley wrote:
Bold bolt wrote:
Everyone but Bolt comes up dirty or is caught deflecting tests and Bolt was faster than all of them and yet we are supposed to believe he was clean ??? What makes Bolt so good that all of the dirty competition wasn’t even as quick? Will he ever get busted?
How many of those guys were running a 45.3 as a HS kid, yep, none. How many of them spent years training as a 200 sprinter before ever running a 100m, yep, none of them. Who there had a 6-5 stride, yep.....0.
Bolt is like Tommie Smith who had a topend totally outerwordly, a 200/400 WR holder who once ran down Jim Hines (first sub10.00/Oly gold) on a 4x1 anchor. Bolt like Smith was simply unique.
Bob Hayes was a 5-11 195 pound footballer, he was unique. There had never been a sprinter that big and powerful (a running back). So like Smith and Bolt he also did things never seen before.
What heavyweight ever had the foot and hand speed of Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali, yep. nobody.
Every once in awhile we come across that special athlete that rarity that unique individual, that is what we have in Usain Bolt.
You're not supporting your own position by noting that Bolt ran fast 400s and spent years running 200s before ever running a 100m. Runners don't move down in distance but up because endurance can be trained more than speed. You're also indirectly pointing to Bolt having the body of a natural 400/800 guy and not a sprinter.
Bold bolt wrote:
Everyone but Bolt comes up dirty or is caught deflecting tests and Bolt was faster than all of them and yet we are supposed to believe he was clean ??? What makes Bolt so good that all of the dirty competition wasn’t even as quick? Will he ever get busted?
1. Bolt ran 20.13 for 200 m as an immature appearing 16 year old.
2. Bolt did minimal formal training until he was 21 years old (2007/2008 time frame)
So he had mutant-level raw, naked talent. Add a little thoughtful coaching to that and he was on another plane from
2008 to 2016 (aged 22 - 30).
TAA wrote:
The stimulant Blake was caught with wasn't banned. He got a penalty, bogus in my opinion, because it was similar to something that was banned.
The average Jamaican thinks Carl Lewis was dirty when the stimulant he tested positive for was only added to the ban list less 30 days before his test and was an ingredient commonly found in several OTC cold medicines. Do you see the hypocrisy?
Btw, part of the issue with Blake was the particular stimulant found is his system was commonly part of a cocktail of other performance enhancing drugs.
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