Going Vegetarian? Going Vegan?

High failure rate wrote:

Vegan_Dude wrote:

It's not a trap - that's just it. It didn't work for you, but there are plenty of people for whom it did work. .

Which is why the amount of people that go vegetarian/vegan and go back to eating meat is over 80%.

If you don't include dead vegans, then the number rises to 100%.

You're missing the point. You are trying to persuade someone to not even try. I'm not sure where you got your numbers from. I've never been surveyed about my dietary choices. If everyone approached life with that attitude, we would miss out on countless amazing things. Just try and think about what you're going to say and how it will be received before you actually hit the 'submit' button.

rainbow penguin wrote:

I'm a 26 y/o female, and I went vegetarian 2 years ago. I still eat dairy, and eggs.

Eggs and dairy are the two highest allergenic foods.

runnerwithuc wrote:

Occasionally I eat hard, lactose free cheese but not more than 1-2 oz per day and usually not more than once per week.

Cheese is one of the worst and most damaging things you could eat.

Don't go vegan wrote:

Vegan_Dude wrote:

You just keep providing anecdotes to why it doesn't work. That doesn't prove anything except that it didn't work for them. The OP asked for anecdotes in support of it. .

So you just want a circle jerk? I tried it for four years. It made me sick. I didn't improve my health till I reintroduced animal foods. My running went to sh!t. I'm saying this because I don't want others fall for the trap like I did.

You're not a benchmark for entire mankind and correlation does not imply causation. Even if you are telling truth (which I doubt as you're posting trash instead of providing your experience and facts), that does not prove anything. There are millions of reasons why this didn't work for you staring with genes, environmental factors and ending with your specific gut microbiota and your specific diet. You could very well be vegan and still be junk eater. Reducing everything to yes/no, black/white, true/false is a sign of a low intelligence. The moment you decide that you "know" something you close the door for growth as from seeker you become a slave of your biases.

Don't forget that there exists several hundred million people on this Earth that have never eaten meat in their entire life and they somehow deal with this more than fine. For example almost 40% of the population of India are vegetarians which roughly translates to 560 million people in India alone.

Such a healthy diet.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EFF30jfTubU

New world order diet wrote:

Because it's a death cult pushed on to us by the elites. And my generalizations aren't dangerous, Veganism is dangerous.

Hey, Trump, you're a big fat slob, you're not even a runner and you have no clue what you're babbling about.

Yuck. wrote:

runnerwithuc wrote:

Occasionally I eat hard, lactose free cheese but not more than 1-2 oz per day and usually not more than once per week.

Cheese is one of the worst and most damaging things you could eat.

Yes, that is true and I 100% agree with that but being on that strict diet that I am it's not easy.

Think about that -- for 3 years no foods that contain even slightest trace of meat, fish, eggs, dairy. On top of that for a year I restricted myself gluten and everything that contained sugar, nuts and seeds. No drinks except water. Most of people would go nuts

You are either a troll getting laughs at trying to aggravate others or you really just don't get it. This type of generalization is why racism and sexism and homophobia still exist. I'm not calling you any of those words, but I wouldn't be surprised if you are one. You are incapable of respecting differences.

Donald Trump is my hero.

You vegetarian people calling Donald Trump a big fat slob pig are just being racist.

Such a healthy diet wrote:

Such a healthy diet.

Oh please quit this BS.

I can post videos on people who have fcuked up their lives on keto and meat as well. It's called cherry picking.

1. How someone looks is not a scientific indicator of the health of their body. There are plenty of vegans and omnivores who look sickly. And there are plenty of vegans and omnivores who look like the definition of vitality itself.

2. Elite runners are not vegan because most people aren't vegan. It's just statistics. Most chess players aren't vegan.

3. Anyone who thinks about how they feel after eating a meal will naturally move towards a plant based diet. Ever feel like you need to sit down after a big meal? It doesn't happen on a WFPB diet. You just feel.. full.

4. Most people grow up eating an omnivore diet that meets most nutritional requirements, and crash out of a vegan diet because they didn't do it right. I don't recommend doing it cold turkey. Just make small changes each week and you will succeed.

5. People who eat a plant based, whole food diet live longer, have less chronic illness (e.g. a longer healthspan).

6. A single study, story, or athlete is not strong evidence. It is anecdotal, or not replicated, and could be biased. Real scientists look at the bulk of the scientific evidence, which all points towards eating unprocessed plants, and eating less processed food and animal products.

7. We have 3rd generation vegans now. It is sustainable, and does meet all nutritional requirements. Vegan children also tend to be taller than omnivore children.

I invite people here to look at the evidence as objectively as possible. Put aside all your conceptions of what healthy is and look at both sides of the evidence. There's nothing wrong with eating something you know is bad for you because you enjoy eating it. But it's another thing to pretend it's healthy because you can't stomach the idea that you might be doing something that's bad for you.

Plants don't have:

Vitamin A, B6 (Pyridoxal, Pyridoxamine), B12, D, E (Animal) F, K2, Q10. Amino acids: Creatine, Carnitine, Carnosine, and Taurine. Heme-iron, Collagen, CLA (Omega 3), Cholesterol and Complete Protein (Consists of 9 essential amino acids)

Antinutrients & harmful substances in plants: Alkaloids, Alpha-amylases, Arsenics, Cellulose, Cyanogenic glycosides, Fiber, Flavonoids, Gluten, Lectins, Mycotoxins, Oxalates, Phenolics, Photosensitizers, Phytic acid, Salicylates, Saponins, Sulforaphane, Tannins, Terpenoids and etc.

A vegan diet indeed prevents heart diseases, by delivering you to the grave long before the coronary risk comes.

OP: As a teenage girl, you are going to struggle hard enough with body changes without undermining your health with this contrived "plant-biased" nonsense, especially when it comes to the iron and B12 anemias, which are devastating to a runner's career (I had them even as a young man veggie). And despite what the V-people would have you believe, taking pills does not compensate for natural, bioavailable forms of nutrients found in meat, fish eggs and dairy fat.

First of all a grain like quinoa alone has all 9 essential amino acids. But we're not worried about "complete proteins all at once" ....rather the blend of amino acids over the course of several meals in a day. You list "heme-iron" like it is a requirement when "non-heme-iron" can be better for long term health. Too much heme iron can be very bad for the human body and likely leads to cancer. Obviously you want your body's iron stores in an ideal range and it can be a fine balance regardless of diet. Then you're worried about "anitnutrients"? We've gone over this before...stuff like Lectins and Oxalates (found in raw, uncooked, unsoaked legumes/beans for example) are basically neutralized when the beans are soaked and or cooked. Who eats raw, rock hard beans?! Cooking is a big evolution for a lot of foods - and it made them fit for human consumption. Ever try to eat raw chicken? Sorry to hear about your B12 and iron issues as a vegetarian. That is certainly not something I'd wish on anyone (regardless of diet or caliber of running). However, those can happen whether you eat meat or not. It is about eating a balanced diet and eating enough calories for your physical demands. As far as the supplements (multivitamins etc) go, Do you not think that athletes who eat a "regular diet" never take anything? I put supplements (i.e. some basic vitamin boosts like B12) in line something like vaccine technology. I mean, would you also not get a tetanus shot or abstain from antibiotics and other forms of modern medicine and nutrition too? What about fortified foods? In a perfect world you get "all the vitamins and nutrients you need" in a perfect balance all from a perfect well rounded diet...however for most people (especially endurance athletes) even in 1st world countries this is far from the case. Regardless of whether you eat animal products or not there are all sorts of things people can be deficient and unbalanced in. ...and that can lead to all sorts of health issues.

I'm gettin' a religious/fundamentalist/zealot vibe from this Canady guy. Seventh-Day Adventist much?

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking. Even few centuries ago meat was a luxury product and was eaten rarely. Few thousands of years ago only about 1-2% of the diet consisted of animal protein. There have been societies on Earth that have existed for thousands of years almost entirely on plant based diets and still exists to this day as 40% of India's population are lacto-vegetarians. It is only in last 50 years that meat consumption has skyrocketed and so did heart diseases and other health problems. Regarding sources of vitamins and amino acids. You may still live in a bubble but there is no real problems to get all the nutritients you need from plant based sources. Vitamin A – sweet potato, carrots, squash to name a few. Besides you can't overdose plant vitamin A because body can get rid of it apart from animal source which just stacks up. B6 – bananas, spinach, avocados, nuts and seeds B12 – this one you must supplement though non-athletes could theoretically get enough from plants as well Vitamin D – are you fcuking kidding? Just go out in the sun though you get from plant based diet as well Vitamin E – avocados, olives, fruits etc. All amino acids can be obtained from plant sources and plant protein uptake is much higher than that of animal source. Most of the animal protein you eat stays in your bowel where it is rotting. Besides carnitine from meet sources contributes significantly to atherosclerosis and is not a benefit. The same goes to cholesterol. Heme iron is a WHO named carcinogen and correlates to bowel cancer significantly. Your logic about bioavailability is also flawed as most of the nutrients from animal sources are much less bioavailable to human bodies. It's only because the density is higher that you get high amounts but the availability itself is much smaller and most of the nutrients end in your sh*t including most of the eaten protein. Protein itself in large amounts is bad as it's a contributor to bad gut microbiota. Antinutritients apply only to fools who like you who want to keep the myth running as in practical life people soak and ferment things before eating. Otherwise why don't you eat raw uncooked meat, the body can deal with it. If not livestock farming, 99.99% of people would not be able to catch and slaughter an animal and bring it to table.

India! Yeah let's look at Indian mortality "Pre-Bad-White- Western Meat Influence":

"...mortality from ischemic heart disease is 15 times higher among our South Indian population as compared with our North Indian population. This is true even though the South Indians eat one-tenth as much fat, most of which is from seed oils and is composed of long-chain fatty acids, in contrast to the North Indians whose dietary fats are mostly of animal origin "

The rest of your post is bunk, claptrap and just plain ignorant as well. The forms of "vitamins" in plants that you describe are not bioavailable, period. They are congeners and precursors at best; plant physiology is totally different than animal (which we are) and have little to no equivalence. Tjey have in effect, a different operating system.

No single plant has complete nutrition for humans, no animal lacks complete nutrition for humans. Almost all poisons and drugs are derived from plants, almost no such toxins or drugs are animal-derived. Plants want as little to do with us as possible, and so are loaded with toxins for defense. Go out in your yard right now and eat a leaf from each plant and get back to us how "healthful" you feel in a few hours.

We are carnivores by biology, and plants are a very poor substitute in order to get through famine. If you choose to live the rest of your life telling your body that it is experiencing a famine, then dive right in my friend.

BS, you bend facts. The paper you are referring to is from 1967 and it is regarding mortality from ischemic heart disease among railroad employees. At that time even the meat consumption in USA were sixfold lower than it is now. Sixfold. Not to mention India which basically had fraction of meat consumption of that time vs that of USA. This paper has little to do with meat vs non-meat consumption. Also the sample size were 56 people. It's laughable.

You cheery pick what you want to read and hear.

It is important to understand that animal fat is a building material for the human hormonal system. There are physiological aspects worth remembering.