Women's Swimming is the only endurance sport where you get old at an extremely young age.

Scorpion_runner wrote:

Swimming requires a lot of flexibility, and a woman loses a lot of here flexibility as soon as she turns 20 compared to her teen years.

What?

??????????????????? wrote:

Scorpion_runner wrote:

Swimming requires a lot of flexibility, and a woman loses a lot of here flexibility as soon as she turns 20 compared to her teen years.

What?

They are still flexible, but not like they are in their teens. And you need a lot of strength and flexibility with swimming. Ankles, arms, hands, etc. Swimmers can flex their feet back like a fin, as well as their arms, as if they are dislocated. Those arms need to have fast rotation to power through. Women swimmers get extremely slower with that once 22 comes on.

Gymnastics proves that. When those 14 -18 year old girls hit 20, they don't move with the same flexibility and grace.

This is proposturus!!

Alan Gregorian wrote:

This is proposturus!!

Women achieve peak freestyle swim speed at earlier ages than men

"These findings suggest that peak freestyle swim speed is achieved at lower age ranges in women when compared to men at 50 m to 1500 m, but not at 800 m. The gender difference in peak freestyle swim speed decreased with increasing swim distance from 50 m to 800 m, but not for 1500 m. These data should be confirmed with swimmers at an international level."

right at 22, they basically fall off a cliff, like we are seeing with Katie Ledecky at the age of 22 compared to her ability at 16

Is this a scorpion runner public service announcement? You’re obviously dead set on what you believe here.

Most runners would find that had their best years earlier if they could start training at the volumes that swimmers do when they are young.

Runners are doing their peak training volumes generally in their early to mid 20's (elites) - elite swimmers are hitting that 5 -7 years earlier. So naturally they would peak earlier as well. KL has been doing a ton of volume for almost 10 years . The 18 yo Aussie is also really good pre-Ledecky her times would be a huge WR. Guys in swimming have the same issue to a lessor extent because men mature a little later and hold on to their muscle mass a little better. There are exceptions to this rule for both genders but its still the rule.

Thanks i guess wrote:

Is this a scorpion runner public service announcement? You’re obviously dead set on what you believe here.

No. It's just mind boggling to me that's all. That the hormonal changes in a woman's body is so aggressive, that they have a very short window of competing when it comes to swimming compared to the men. They develop more estrogen, store more fat , become heavier and less flexible..

BS wrote:

Most runners would find that had their best years earlier if they could start training at the volumes that swimmers do when they are young.

Runners are doing their peak training volumes generally in their early to mid 20's (elites) - elite swimmers are hitting that 5 -7 years earlier. So naturally they would peak earlier as well. KL has been doing a ton of volume for almost 10 years . The 18 yo Aussie is also really good pre-Ledecky her times would be a huge WR. Guys in swimming have the same issue to a lessor extent because men mature a little later and hold on to their muscle mass a little better. There are exceptions to this rule for both genders but its still the rule.

Yep. pretty much. Missy Franklin was in the Olympic Trials at the age of 13, and she stated that her body went through a drastic change when she turned 19-20, and she just couldn't get the strength and speed up anymore. She retired at the age of 22. She said her body became more dense, and it was hard to maintain a certain weight , which is no good in swimming

That's not true. In fact, only very long distances - half/marathons, triathlons, or cycling benefit older athletes. VO2MAX decreases after early 20s. That's why most elite runners PR in the 5k when they are 18-23 years old, and I assume the decline in VO2MAX also effects swimming.

Here a list of the fastest 5k times and the age in brackets at which they ran it:

1. Kenenisa Bekele (22) ETH 12:37.35

2. Haile Gebrselassie (25.2) ETH 12:39.36

3. Daniel Komen (21.3) KEN 12:39.74

4. Selemon BAREGA (18.5) 12:43.02

5. Hagos GEBRHIWET (24.3) 12:45.82

4. Eliud Kipchoge (19.7) KEN 12:46.53

5. Yomif KEJELCHA (21.0) ETH 12:46.79

6. Dejen GEBREMESKEL (22.7) ETH 12:46.81

7. Sileshi Sihine (21.4) ETH 12:47.04

8. Isiah Kiplangat KOECH (18.5) KEN 12:48.64

9. Issac Songok (22.3) KEN 12:48.66

10. Yenew ALAMIREW (22.1) ETH 12:48.77

11. Saif Saaeed SHAHEEN (20.7) KEN 12:48.81

Lagat, ran 12:53 at 26 years old, which is already quite impressive. But he always did low mileage and focused on the 1500, so it's likely he just wasn't at his peak when he was younger, and could have run even faster.

Some, like El G peaked even later, at 28 years, but they also never focused on the 5k when they were young. He could have run faster than his 12:50 had he focused on the 5k many years earlier.

Add about 4 years to most of their ages.

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

... blah blah blah ...

All the people you mentioned are men ----- not WOMEN.

Scorpion_runner wrote:

Thanks i guess wrote:

Is this a scorpion runner public service announcement? You’re obviously dead set on what you believe here.

No. It's just mind boggling to me that's all. That the hormonal changes in a woman's body is so aggressive, that they have a very short window of competing when it comes to swimming compared to the men. They develop more estrogen, store more fat , become heavier and less flexible..

Why didn’t anyone inform Dara Torres of this?

Wrong. It's hormonal. Woman put on more fat in late puberty, which affects swimming. They lose lean muscle mass.

"Another explanation for the different age ranges associated with peak freestyle swim speed between women and men could include anthropometry and body fat as an important predictor variables for swimming performance.16,24–28 Female swimmers have significantly more adipose tissue than male swimmers.24,26,28 Siders et al26 reported that measurements of body composition such as body fat and body mass may be predictors of swimming performance in women, but not in men. Tuuri et al27 showed that greater fat mass in female swimmers was more strongly related to lower levels of exercise. While the swimmers achieved their peak freestyle swim speed at approximately 20 years of age, specific changes in body composition during that age period might be of importance. Therefore, the difference in the age of peak freestyle swim speed between genders might be explained by body fat and its changes during maturation.29–31 Bitar et al29 showed that, during the onset of puberty, boys and girls gained fat-free mass, whereas fat mass gain was higher in girls than in boys. Lean body mass, which primarily reflects muscle mass, begins to increase during early puberty in both boys and girls. Fat mass, however, increases during the late stages of puberty in girls.30 Further increases in fat mass after puberty may impair swim performance in women. An important finding was reported by Stager et al.31 These authors showed that the mean age at menarche in swimmers was significantly later than in controls (ie, 13.4 years and 13 years, respectively). A later menarche means that puberty, as well as its associated increase in fat mass, will also be delayed. Stager et al31 assumed that the later menarche observed in swimmers appeared to be associated with factors that contribute to a superior performance. Zuniga et al28 showed that male and female sprint swimmers at approximately 11 years of age exhibited different percentages of body fat (boys 9.4% ± 5.4% of body fat; girls 12.7% ± 6.2% of body fat, respectively), and suggested that swimming performance for girls may be improved through training programs designed to reduce body fat."

Plus you burn more fat running than you do swimming, so women can maintain their lean muscle mass a lot easier in track and field. It's much harder in gymnastics and swimming.

I suspect that another huge driver in swimming is economics. The pro ranks in swimming must be even thinner than in running. Assuming that is the case, then it would be the goal for EVERY swimmer to lifetime peak by age 16-17 and nail down a choice scholarship offer to get into the top college programs.

YMMV wrote:

I suspect that another huge driver in swimming is economics. The pro ranks in swimming must be even thinner than in running. Assuming that is the case, then it would be the goal for EVERY swimmer to lifetime peak by age 16-17 and nail down a choice scholarship offer to get into the top college programs.

^^^ good analysis. Makes sense.

Scorpion_runner wrote:

Yep. pretty much. Missy Franklin was in the Olympic Trials at the age of 13, and she stated that her body went through a drastic change when she turned 19-20, and she just couldn't get the strength and speed up anymore. She retired at the age of 22. She said her body became more dense, and it was hard to maintain a certain weight , which is no good in swimming

Missy Franklin retired because of a back injury.

Could it also be that because great swimmers started when they were < 6 years old, that they peaked 10 years after they started?