What is more impressive: Qualifying for the Olympic Marathon Trials or D1 NCAA XC Nationals?

I’m what I would call a fringe NCAA guy. Ran at NCAA Cross all 4 years but as a member of a team. I never would have made it alone and never made it in track. Low 100 finisher at my best and on a team in the high single to low teens.

I would trade one of those trips for an OTQ so for me that feels more impressive.

As a decent DIII runner who could never touch D1 XC Nattys but has hit OTQ, it's hands down D1 XC Nattys.

While tangentially related, this discussion has also led me to wonder: What % of the current Trials field has competed at D1 XC Nationals??

Desert Trash wrote:

As a decent DIII runner who could never touch D1 XC Nattys but has hit OTQ, it's hands down D1 XC Nattys.

While tangentially related, this discussion has also led me to wonder: What % of the current Trials field has competed at D1 XC Nationals??

Are you out of you're mind? You do realize that at the D1 National Cross Country Meet some teams have 33 minute, and even 34 minute guys running, and an occasional 35-minute guy. Those dudes can't run a 2:19 marathon, much less hold that pace for 10k. This is a stupid thread and needs to be reworded. Who are the trolls behind this thread?

Please explain? wrote:

Desert Trash wrote:

As a decent DIII runner who could never touch D1 XC Nattys but has hit OTQ, it's hands down D1 XC Nattys.

While tangentially related, this discussion has also led me to wonder: What % of the current Trials field has competed at D1 XC Nationals??

Are you out of you're mind? You do realize that at the D1 National Cross Country Meet some teams have 33 minute, and even 34 minute guys running, and an occasional 35-minute guy. Those dudes can't run a 2:19 marathon, much less hold that pace for 10k. This is a stupid thread and needs to be reworded. Who are the trolls behind this thread?

No, Desert Trash is right, qualifying for NCAA D1 is way harder. First, read the post, it’s been clarified if you qualify as a team you have to be a scorer and more “middle of the pack”... we’re not talk talking about the DFL guys. Also, as mentioned before, qualifying as an individual requires you to be very good. Qualifying as part of team takes some luck so that makes it hard (plus to be Top 5 and middle of the pack, you still have to be fairly good).

I did everything I could in college to qualify for NCAA’s. After college, I casually ran for a year, then trained for my first marathon seriously for about 3 months. I OTQ’d in that race by a decent margin running solo. Not trying to diminish the accomplishment- as I know it is a dream for many- but it was a heck of a lot easier than qualifying for NCAA’s- which again, I never could do. Many NCAA qualifiers will disagree, but I’d bet many of the NCAA qualifiers disagreeing never actually tried to dedicate themselves to the marathon.

You could however make the argument that getting and OTQ is harder because it’s difficult to continue running after college. That’s fair, but from a purely physiological, running-fast standpoint, an OTQ is easier. If every single NCAA runner ran the marathon post-collegiately and trained properly there would be FAR more people at the Olympic Trials than there are at NCAA’s (assuming the standard was still 2:19).

There's too many tangibles in that. You have to be a score on your team? Okay, let's say you have a bunch of Kenyans who score well, but you score, but you still run like 33 minutes. Here's another one, Emmanuel Rotich of Tulane made it as an individual, but finished very far back at the meet. Right now I would say he cannot make the USA Olympic trials( he isn't a eligible resident, so this is just for making a point) in the marathon, the ten thousand, the 5000, but maybe the Steeplechase, and he won the NCAA Regional, so again there are too many tangibles. The Olympic Trials is still the big dance, END OF Story.

Why are people talking about the #7 runners on fringe teams? Let's limit the question to individual NCAA qualifiers. Much fairer comparison. Which one's more impressive probably depends on the region though.

There's too many tangibles in that. You have to be a score on your team? Okay, let's say you have a bunch of Kenyans who score well, but you score, but you still run like 33 minutes. Here's another one, Emmanuel Rotich of Tulane made it as an individual, but finished very far back at the meet. Right now I would say he cannot make the USA Olympic trials( he isn't a eligible resident, so this is just for making a point) in the marathon, the ten thousand, the 5000, but maybe the Steeplechase, and he won the NCAA Regional, so again there are too many tangibles. The Olympic Trials is still the big dance, END OF Story.[/quote]

The Olympics is the Big Dance.

Without hestitation, my gut says for men to qualify for NCAA D1 xc NCAAs out of a legit region as an individiual is harder to do than make it to the Olympic Trials.

And if you are talking about women, it's a laughable debate.

That being said, the IAAF scoring tables have 2:19 as equivalent to 29:30 in the 10,000 so it's fairly similar.

The last 3 guys I had at Cornell to qualify for NCAAs in xc had the following collegiate 10,000 pbs.

Zac Hine - 2909

Nate Edelman - 2910

Sage Canaday - 2947

After I stopped coaching at Cornell, they had a guy named Johnny Phillips make it in the marathon at 2:18. He never scored at the conference in track and was never top 50 in the conference in xc. That being said he did run like 1418/30:02.

I know someone who never made it to NCAA's but made it to the Olympic Trials his senior year of college.

H. E. Pennypacker wrote:

I put pickles in my panties and pretend I am the mighty mongoose.

mini dills or kosher dills ???

rojo wrote:

Without hestitation, my gut says for men to qualify for NCAA D1 xc NCAAs out of a legit region as an individiual is harder to do than make it to the Olympic Trials.

And if you are talking about women, it's a laughable debate.

That being said, the IAAF scoring tables have 2:19 as equivalent to 29:30 in the 10,000 so it's fairly similar.

The last 3 guys I had at Cornell to qualify for NCAAs in xc had the following collegiate 10,000 pbs.

Zac Hine - 2909

Nate Edelman - 2910

Sage Canaday - 2947

After I stopped coaching at Cornell, they had a guy named Johnny Phillips make it in the marathon at 2:18. He never scored at the conference in track and was never top 50 in the conference in xc. That being said he did run like 1418/30:02.

there is just some degree of the difficulty, and the unknown. the conditions, the competition, the sheer energy at a regional meet - all of that makes it harder. to get the OTQ you just need to hit the time on the clock, nothing else.

I made the NCAA XC championship on a team and was 4th man in the District, but I don't think I could have made the Olympic marathon trials which was 2:23 at my prime.

I've done both and I lean the Olympic Marathon Trials based on the current standard. When the half standard was 65 that was easier because almost any sub 30 10K runner can get that on a fast course.

On the women's side its NCAA's. Sorry but the women's trials standard is a joke. There are more guys training seriously post-collegiate than women yet twice as many women have qualifiers, over 300.

I was on a team that missed National Qualification by an at large point at the 31st place (back when OTQ was 2:22).

Two guys on my team still made individual appearances. One never ran competitively again after college, but the other has hit the OTQ multiple times and still competes and has a qualifier for 2020.

I also had two teammates qualify back when it was 2:22 (although one of them was under 2:19). Neither of them had an NCAA XC qualification (the sub 2:19 guy probably should have easily finished top 5 at regions at his peak, but ran poorly; you have to be ready to go on the day).

Obviously a few 5-6-7 guys get dusted at the DI meet, but those guys are just right place right time. To actually earn a DI bid as an individual or as a contributing team member is much harder the the OTQ. The talent needed for NCAA XC is much greater.

An OTQ does require persistent training and a willingness to run outside of the support and confines of an NCAA team, and not everyone has that mentality, but that does not necessarily mean that it is harder.

Anyone who has ran D1 knows that it is more difficult to make the NCAA Big Show over OTQ. Sure, throw in the caveat that you must be top 5 scorer on your team or individual qualifier. I know so many chumps who go for the OTQ post collegiality who never had a chance to make the top 7 or even sniffed NCAAs as an individual. I think a lot of the guys that achieved NCAAs don't care to keep grinding and be a fringe 2:18 guy. They are smart enough to realize it is not worth the effort when they have already achieved something much harder. Take the comparison out of the running world and sure the average Joe might be more impressed by the OTQ, but what the heck do they know anyway.

BUT most importantly, if an amatuer is going for the OTQ, the must annoy everyone on instagram and social media abot it because it might increase the chances they can get that OTQ! LOLOLZZZZZZ

So you mean to tell me if you score at the NCAA Meet then that is better then making OT? I know a guy who was the 5th man, and ran 34:07, and was like 20th from last, in the 90s, and his team finished 29th out of 31. According to this, he ran better then making the OT. This guy has never ran faster then 33minutes and to my knowledge ,although he doesn't run anymore, I only saw him break 16 a few times. The Olympic Trials doesn't lie, you eather hit the time or you don't.

You are getting caught in the details my man. Clearly you have never had a shot at either.

I ran D1 and disagree with you.

Has anyone looked at the D1 guys who have OT qualifiers and seen how many also ran at NCAA XC? I doubt anybody has done this yet but I would guess the vast majority who ran D1 made in the XC Nats.

Chill BRAH! wrote:

You are getting caught in the details my man. Clearly you have never had a shot at either.

No, you are way OFF! This whole post must have been started by a guy who made the meet, but can't make the Olympic Trials.