Why the old guard is killing the running community

cycle of life wrote:

The old guard is like this for every generation. When gen X's replace the boomers as the oldest guard, it will be I remember when we had free speech and you could say things in private without getting fired. When Millennial's replace gen X it will be I remember when we had separate men and women's categories. When gen Y takes over as the old guard it will be I remember when our parents over scheduled our lives, did everything for us, and every place was a safe place.

At some point the OP will realize that the old guard and the new guard always exist and at some point he will become the old guard and disagree with the latest generations take on life.

Not gen y they’re zoomers

WeNeedToFixThis wrote:

I originally thought this was a great troll and was going to commend you but maybe it's not?

You seem a bit upset about things but I do think you are a bit off here.

I don't want to go into great detail but you are generalizing as much about the "old guard" as you say they do about the younger generation.

Not all or even a majority of the old guard thinks, what did you say , " the best way to coach is to treat the athlete like cattle"? I'm old, I coach and I don't buy into that.

Sure, old guys think they were tougher and faster... that is an issue that's ever thus. They can think it but that doesn't mean it was true. Trust me, the majority of your generation will think the same thing when they get old... "we were better' in some form or other. Just chill... it's not that big of a deal.

And no they are not ruining the running community.

I'm not sure what you mean by ruining but it has to do with money and the lack of it in the sport. Running is a niche sport and has been getting nichier (probably not a word) since TV started promoting football, basketball, and baseball... heck, skateboarding commands bigger dollars than running. Figure out a way to get the sport to generate more revenue and that will fix the issue... and no, the old guard isn't preventing that.

As for social media... of course there is nothing wrong with it. It's what you were brought up on. Old folks can't or shouldn't fault you because your generation embraces it. That said, you need to take a step back and understand the old guard wasn't brought up with SM (or iphones )so their perception of it's usefulness will never be the same as yours. Again, you are being as intolerant as you feel they are towards you.

And sure, vocal old guys write trash on here about all kinds of stuff ... just the same as young guys... old guys aren't ruining the sport more than any other generation.

You seem like a smart dude so if you get mad about my post then I will know I was trolled and then say again... nice job, you sucked me in!

alea iacta est wrote:

I think most of the criticism is deserved because millennials and Gen Zers have no concept of accepting the unfortunate realities of life. Basically that you are just one out of 7.5 billion people on earth, you’re not special, and that’s okay. What results from this are millions of emotionally stunted and weak willed people who expect all the best that life has to offer without actually wanting to sacrifice or perform at a level commensurate with the lifestyle they feel they deserve.

Jesus christ, what unique insight! If this is what you extract as wisdom from a long life lived, then I am baffled. This is high-school level depth here. Can you also quote 1984 for me, I haven't read it yet? But if you have finished high school, you'd know that Sokrates said "“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.” .

Sounds familiar. Why repeat this millenia-old meme?

Do you really believe that anything you see on social media is grounded in the real? It's a fake shiny falsity, hollow and vapid.

If the shallow and foolish want to kid themselves that living life in a fake virtual world is worthwhile, go for it. Don't suggest that those of us who prefer to remain fully engaged in the tangible universe, to be able to look one another in the eye and talk to each other, that we are somehow falling behind. It's the other way around kid.

You are losing the most essential facets that make us who we are. I know few kids who can put down their GD phones and talk, you know, like human beings. No depth, no substance, that's what you are.

Last, you are greatly enabling the future dystopian world in which your 'social rating' will matter more than anything else. Just kill me before we get to that place. Young fools.

dude you are overthinking it and kind of living in a bubble of narcissism. older gen always says "get off my lawn!" social media isn't doing anything special, its just a different medium. If a hs saw a runner on social media its because they were already into running.. the same way the older gen would get into running by looking at running magazines.

track has always been a small sport. it was only kind of big because of the olympics and the cold war.

its smaller now then ever before, but because of social media and the bubble it creates you think its big because thats all you interact with.

as for personality making the sport bigger.... that idea never works.. the sport didn't get bigger with prefontaine the sport was big because of the usa ussr using sport as a way to prove dominance. if pre was around now he would be not be as important.

The world is by and large run by people over 60, get used to that, it isn't going away. Listening to your vapid platitudes reminds me why this will always be the case. No, I am not over 60, not even over 40, but you are drumming up a problem that really isn't something that can be fixed.

Some faction of a population is always going to resist things and have no use for them (like Instagram). It isn't so much that (some) people hate Instagram as they actually hate what some twats are doing with it. Some of us grew up in a culture where it was mental to take a picture of your food, or take a picture of you in an ice-bath for mass consumption. That kind of thing just adds no value to the fan experience FOR ME. It is the kind of thing that PEOPLE magazine has been filled with for 45 years. Just because a lot of people over age 35 don't want to see that stuff doesn't mean they are wrong, bad or worse than a younger generation.

Jokes on you cause I'm 29 so you can drop the ageism thing. Actually, we're probably around the same age, yet here I am living a life devoid of reliance on a social media platform for validation and cultivating social capital. I mean, look at how I'm responding to your scathing reply almost a day later while you've been glued to your chair going to war with any critic who has responded to your online "dear diary".

For what it's worth, I don't consider myself one of you "millenials" because I was raised differently than most of you and consequently I don't relate to many of the distinguishing traits of your generation. I don't have any social media accounts, I worked my way through college without relying on loans, and I don't spend my time trying to posit Utopian solutions for the ills of the world. So when I say that you don't get the real world, I say this from having rubbed elbows with people like you my entire life. Bear in mind that I don't think I have life all figured out as I am learning something new about myself and about the world everyday. It's just that unlike you and our peers, I don't interpret all the unfortunate things that happen in the world and in life to be cosmic injustices that must be resolved at all costs.

The main issue I take with your whole diatribe is that you've basically railed against the baby boomers and Gen Xers because you had a negative coaching experience and because you don't like the tone of the posters on LRC. Instead of just accepting that, regardless of generation or age, there will always be coaches that fail to get the most of their athletes and that there will always be people that don't buy into the latest fads and technology, you're spending a lot of time and emotional investment getting worked up on a problem that simply can't be solved. Maybe these issues can be addressed constructively on a limited basis when opportunities arise like in the case of Greg Metcalf, but it's unrealistic to expect a complete cultural change in the sport of running when a lot of these things are just endemic to the sport and to life.

Hayduke wrote:

track has always been a small sport. it was only kind of big because of the olympics and the cold war.

Actually Track & Field is the most participated in sport in America. Perhaps it is the coaches at this level that fail to teach the love of the sport.

Or perhaps track just needs regular contests. And to sell beer.

Yet another thinly veiled thread to talk up Tinman elite. It's not that we don't like you guys, it's just annoying to read post after post about you.

Not this stuff again.. wrote:

Jesus christ, what unique insight! If this is what you extract as wisdom from a long life lived, then I am baffled. This is high-school level depth here. Can you also quote 1984 for me, I haven't read it yet? But if you have finished high school, you'd know that Sokrates said "“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.” .

Sounds familiar. Why repeat this millenia-old meme?

I grew up in a time when the classics weren't taught in high school as they're probably not diverse enough for modern academia, but I do know of this quote. I'm actually 29 so any criticism I have of the younger generation comes from one of their demographic contemporaries. I would venture a guess that they didn't give out participation trophies or preach the gospel of "self esteem" back in ancient Athens which I think has been the fatal flaw contributing to the decadence phase that Western society is currently going through.

I'll add a quote from the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius (which I actually have read) as some food for thought... from Meditations 8.1:

"For repressing vain glory, it serves to remember that it is no longer in your power to make your whole life, even from your youth onwards, a life worthy of a philosopher. It is known to many, and you yourself know also, how far you are from wisdom. Confusion is upon you, and it now can be no easy matter for you to gain the reputation of a philosopher. The conditions of your life are against it. Now therefore, as you see how the matter truly lies, put from you all thoughts of reputation among men; and let it suffice you to live so long as your nature wills, though that be but the scanty remnant of a life. Study, therefore, the will of your nature, and be solicitous about nothing else. You have made many efforts and wandered much, but you have nowhere found happiness; not in syllogisms, not in riches, not in fame or pleasure, not in anything. Where, then, is it? In acting that part which human nature requires. How can you act that part? By holding principles as the source of your desires and actions. What principles? The principles of good and evil: That nothing is good for a man which does not make him just, temperate, courageous, and free; and that nothing can be evil which tends not to make him the contrary of all these."

Really not really wrote:

Hayduke wrote:

track has always been a small sport. it was only kind of big because of the olympics and the cold war.

Actually Track & Field is the most participated in sport in America. Perhaps it is the coaches at this level that fail to teach the love of the sport.

Or perhaps track just needs regular contests. And to sell beer.

lol thats why they say lies dammed lies and statistics! most participated has nothing to do with most watched... look at those stands at HS and College meets.... its just the parents and athletes.

Hayduke wrote:

dude you are overthinking it and kind of living in a bubble of narcissism. older gen always says "get off my lawn!" social media isn't doing anything special, its just a different medium. If a hs saw a runner on social media its because they were already into running.. the same way the older gen would get into running by looking at running magazines.

I strongly urge you and anyone else who believes this to do a quick search on "Social Media Dopamine", and begin reading up. "Highly addictive" doesn't begin to cover it.... technology may be a fine servant but it is a brutal master.

+1. Young phone-addled people (everyone under 35 or so these days) are not the same as the rest of us. Ability to maintain eye contact, to carry on a conversation, to interact without technology, terrible. In my company the critical interactions with outside partners are always carried out by older executives, mostly because we don't trust the younger ones to be able to engage effectively with the people we work with outside of the firm. They're OK for about five minutes and then they peeter out. They need to excuse themselves to check their effing phones or to go sit by themselves in short order. You young folk really are qualitatively different than the rest of us, not in a good way at all. Weakness, not strength.

think again wrote:

I strongly urge you and anyone else who believes this to do a quick search on "Social Media Dopamine", and begin reading up. "Highly addictive" doesn't begin to cover it.... technology may be a fine servant but it is a brutal master.

What the hell is OP talking about?

20 something runner wrote:

What the hell is OP talking about?

I haven't a clue, but he sure is fired up about it.

Not this stuff again.. wrote:

But if you have finished high school, you'd know that Sokrates said "“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.” .

Sounds familiar. Why repeat this millenia-old meme?

"This passage was very popular in the 1960s and its essence was used by the Mayor of Amsterdam, Gijsbert van Hall, following a street demonstration in 1966, as reported by The New York Times, April 3, 1966, p. 16.

This use prompted Malcolm S. Forbes to write an editorial on youth.—Forbes, April 15, 1966, p. 11. In that same issue, under the heading “Side Lines,” pp. 5–6, is a summary of the efforts of researchers and scholars to confirm the wording of Socrates, or Plato, but without success. Evidently, the quotation is spurious."

So the best you can do is produce a fake quote that was popular in the 1960s. I'm about your age (late 20s) and I was fed the same line growing up. "Every generation criticizes the next, but the kids are all right." It's practically boomer doctrine. You are enslaved by boomer thought patterns even as you criticize them.

(I'm too lazy to check for a similar passage, but the fake quote may be a very free adaptation of Socrates' critique of democracy in book 8 or 9 of The Republic. In any event, "every generation of youth is criticized" is an inadequate response to specific arguments about specific issues relating to a specific generation, just as "everyone gets accused of doping" is an inadequate response to specific evidence that a specific athlete is doping.)

So you are saying you don't think every generation thinks it was better than the generation that follows them? You think it's only a 'boomer' thing to think that?

Just wondering if that was your point. if it was not ,please expand on your point a bit further.

Thanks in advance.

As a fellow former D1 runner, I have to disagree with you here and emphasize that my "back in the day" generation was miles tougher than generations since.

I didn't go to Oregon, but they had a very similar situation to the one we faced. They ran a 5th Street "tempo" run or something, I'm pretty sure that's the name. It involved some time on Interstate 5. The Interstate. Then roads through town.

We had a similar route, which produced at least one NCAA individual champion, and a few team titles. It was a hard "tempo" route that included miles through town intersections and stoplights. Crossing highways.

I bring this up because neither school has done the same thing for decades. Runners do their work on woodchip trails, or on secluded gravel roads, and they know what "tempo" means. That word didn't even exist in my day, yet we did the same thing! That's how tough we were.

You're not wrong at all. The sport, partly because there is so little money in it, falls prey to the Good Ol Boy Network more than many others. Bad agents politic to retain their positions and power. There's no purge driven by performance and public perception like in football and basketball. Thanks for speaking your mind on this, it's refreshing even if it ultimately makes little difference in the actual landscape. At least more can be aware of it, which is where any change starts.