Hardrock 100 - Cancelled

????? wrote:

The link says the race date was supposed to be July 17. Doesn't canceling 37 days out seem premature?

Imagine an avalanche picks up a football stadium sized forest, drags it down the mountain and leaves it on top of a Jeep road. That is what it currently looks like up Engineer.

Snowpack melts mostly in a predictable pattern. Above a certain level it is not hard to predict the tops of mountains (lots of the course) will still be under snow on race day.

Agree, volunteers are also endangered.

winter came wrote:

????? wrote:

The link says the race date was supposed to be July 17. Doesn't canceling 37 days out seem premature?

Imagine an avalanche picks up a football stadium sized forest, drags it down the mountain and leaves it on top of a Jeep road. That is what it currently looks like up Engineer.

Snowpack melts mostly in a predictable pattern. Above a certain level it is not hard to predict the tops of mountains (lots of the course) will still be under snow on race day.

Is that below treeline? I live by mountains and avalanche debris is crossable, certainly weeks old avalanche debris. That is, unless it's blocked by forest of fallen trees.

I'm not being critical of the race staff, and have no stake in the race going off or not. Even knowing that they must have a handle on how quickly snow melts out there historically, it just seems like such a long way out to make the call. It's curiosity mainly. If the conditions are so extreme, it'd be cool to see the photos.

You would really have to come here and see for yourself to understand. Nothing I say will really convince you. I was up Engineer and Governor Basin a couple of days ago. It isn't just if the course is passable by foot, it is also the ability to get aid stations in to some of these very remote locations. There is 20ft of snow covering some of the jeep roads used for access. I know it seems weird you could predict snow pack this far out, but this isn't the first time they have had to cancel. They track the snow every year and how fast it melts in the various locations. If you have been through a debris field you know that they can be pretty dangerous when they are still sitting on top of a ton of melting snow. Now send a race through it at all times of day including the middle of the night.

Since you were out there, photos? You read my post wrong - I already said: 1. just curious, not being judgmental 2. Already assumed they are basing it on historical melt data, so seems not at all weird they could predict snowmelt. 3. Have been through avalance debris. That said, 5+ weeks out. 20 ft of snow can melt really quickly in the summer.

That’s one of the problems, it can melt really quickly. Like when you’re trying to clear it.

The snow pack in the basin is about 15 times the normal amount for this time of year and about a month behind schedule in melting.

https://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/ftpref/states/co/charts/basinplotsmdasjrb19.gif

There is about as much snow up there right now than there was at last years peak. They took out a damn near Lake City because it would have likely been obliterated by nature this year.

https://news.yahoo.com/lake-city-prepares-possible-flooding-001816670.html

Yeah, there is a lot of now this year.

????? wrote:

Since you were out there, photos? You read my post wrong - I already said: 1. just curious, not being judgmental 2. Already assumed they are basing it on historical melt data, so seems not at all weird they could predict snowmelt. 3. Have been through avalance debris. That said, 5+ weeks out. 20 ft of snow can melt really quickly in the summer.

The issue isn't one or two avvy debris fields, it's hundreds of them. What happened in that area in regards to avalanches this past March is truly hard to comprehend. Any drainage that was steep enough to slide, did slide. Some areas up governor look like a bomb went off, haven't been up engineer yet but I'm sure its the same. When a statement like "historic avalanches" is being thrown around in reference to the San Juan mountains, just take that to mean "big and scary avalanches happened everywhere". When I was skiing in that area this past April it was already pretty apparent the race was going to have a hard time going this year. Additionally, 20 feet of snow does not melt that fast at 10k-14k feet, at least here in Colorado.

You must not live out west in the mountains to be asking questions and making statements like this. In Utah there is still a lot of deep and dangerous snow over about 7800 ft and some extreme avalanche debris. A lot of races are having to make course changes, or cancellations, due to the amount of snow we got this year. The ski resort less than 10 miles from my house reported over 700 inches of snow this season. It takes a LONG time for that much snow to melt, and then to be able to clear the avalanche debris from the trails.

avalanche wrote:

????? wrote:

The link says the race date was supposed to be July 17. Doesn't canceling 37 days out seem premature?

It's not the amount of snow but the damage to trails/area from the avalanches.

I have been helping a local national forest with trail maintenance for many years. One of my regular hikes is a 2000-foot, switchback, climb over a 2-1/2 mile distance. One large rain gulley has been expanding over the last few years. This year it is no longer possible to "patch" the trail to get across. That trail is now closed until a solution is determined. A park ranger I spoke with said the solution would either be building a foot-bridge to get across the new 30-foot chasm, or to create a new switchback section that went around the now-giant gulley. . . . . The point being that severe weather/avalanche/rain damage to a trail can take a year to fix. It is very likely that the repaired trail will not be the same as it was; so a reconsideration of the course needs to be taken (remapped, remarked, remeasured).

XgamesXtreem wrote:

I thought the whole point of ultras to be "extreme!"? What's more extreme than running during an avalanche?

DOING IT WITH A GREEN MOHAWK HELLZ YEAH!!!!

I live out west, but farther west and north - never spent time in the Rocky Mountains where you have more snow. Like I said, I'm curious and trying to prompt more stories, descriptions, and photos of what it's like. I have heard and seen literally dozens of avalanches happen though (mostly point releases in mornings in the spring as the sun hits).

You are either seriously deficient in what you know about science and climatology, or you're just a douche. or a bit of both.

The RD should get to damn work clearing the course.

I've had to do it for my local races.

Choosing the easy way out an cancelling a month early.

Figure it out.

The race I ran this weekend actually altered the course yet still had it. We were happy. We communicated with ITRA on the new course.

Figure it out.

kjespon wrote:

The RD should get to damn work clearing the course.

I've had to do it for my local races.

Choosing the easy way out an cancelling a month early.

Figure it out.

The race I ran this weekend actually altered the course yet still had it. We were happy. We communicated with ITRA on the new course.

Figure it out.

They could certainly hold a race assuming they could get permits (not likely), it wouldn't be anything like hardrock though.

If you think the RD should get up to 14,000 ft and start shoveling snow off the course you have no idea what you are talking about. This isn't your local race. GTFO.

Thank you ultra community,

You have shown us what true extreme endurance is about.

Its about something others than you self aggrandizing plodders.

no idea at all wrote:

They could certainly hold a race assuming they could get permits (not likely), it wouldn't be anything like hardrock though..

Hold it at the local track.

you make me sad

hook line & sinker wrote:

you make me sad

Not as sad as your mom.