Is Tuohy update?

If she's running against people at the trials that can run 1:57, it will because she decided to go for the 800. 1:57 will get you on the all-time top ten list for the U.S. and not a single person on the list ran ever ran a serious 5000.

We don't know how soft her 800 PR is or how fast she can run 400. It's a little early to banish her to the marathon.

I think you're ignoring how her poor pacing takes more out of her than the total time might indicate. For example: indoor nationals DMR she went out absurdly fast (by her own admission) That race was certainly max effort even if it wasn't a PR.

That was a bit of an aberration, it was in a relay and she got the baton trailing, and the leaders went out in 68-70 and she was determined to start catching them so she went faster...too fast. you could see her it a wall with something like 400 to go. A better sense of pace and common sense could have told her if she went 67/70/70 she would have caught them all. She did it a year earlier in a SMR anchor too. In her best efforts she has run good (pretty steady) splits like 67/69/69/68 for the 1 mile. She also overdid it a bit at NXN.....but with all of the hype she was given, I suspect she felt a lot of pressure there. Most athletes got a 3 second intro. She got a 60 second intro listing each one of her XC and track records. But no pressure Katelyn...... (my humor). So, under pressure, and being a competitive teenager, she overdoes some early pacing. At least that is my view on things.

She might have to race Semenya in the 5k in 2024 Olympics. Shelby was definitely fit enough to run a 1:57. Brenda Martinez will be 5k by then and she has run 1:57. Kate Grace will probably be a 5k runner by 2024 and has already run 1:58.

The point is she's slow. She is a fast long distance runner but she has very poor top speed. Her 2:09 last year was all out against a girl faster than her. Katelyn looked like she was sprinting the whole thing.

In that DMR race she got the baton for the anchor leg with the team in 15th place and 150 meters behind the leader. She finished in 5th place and only 50 meters back. She wasn't pacing at all; she was trying to the team back in the race. The first 400 was in 63 and the first 800 was 2:09. So, her heart was driving her, not her head. When she is out front, her pacing is excellent for a high school athlete. And, as in the pro race this past winter, she led the race until the finishing laps when the maturity and strength of the older women took over in the finishing laps. She did finish in 3rd seven seconds behind the winner. With proper coaching she will be one of America's best middle distance runners.

slow twitch only wrote:

She might have to race Semenya in the 5k in 2024 Olympics. Shelby was definitely fit enough to run a 1:57. Brenda Martinez will be 5k by then and she has run 1:57. Kate Grace will probably be a 5k runner by 2024 and has already run 1:58.

The point is she's slow. She is a fast long distance runner but she has very poor top speed. Her 2:09 last year was all out against a girl faster than her. Katelyn looked like she was sprinting the whole thing.

HS 800 PRs

Brenda Martinez: 2:24 (12th)

Kate Grace: 2:12 (12th)

Shelby Houlihan: 2: 07.7 (12th)

Katelyn Tuohy: 2:09.4 (10th)

Her coach was quoted as saying the exact opposite in the SI article so you're calling him a liar. And saying her parents aren't concerned about her future is the worst thing you could say about any parent.

Is this just your analysis from afar or do have inside information?

PoppaB wrote:

In that DMR race she got the baton for the anchor leg with the team in 15th place and 150 meters behind the leader. She finished in 5th place and only 50 meters back. She wasn't pacing at all; she was trying to the team back in the race. The first 400 was in 63 and the first 800 was 2:09. So, her heart was driving her, not her head. When she is out front, her pacing is excellent for a high school athlete. And, as in the pro race this past winter, she led the race until the finishing laps when the maturity and strength of the older women took over in the finishing laps. She did finish in 3rd seven seconds behind the winner. With proper coaching she will be one of America's best middle distance runners.

You are mixing up 2 races. In the 2019 Indoor DMR, she got the baton in 5th place something like 5-7 seconds behind the leaders and reportedly split 63/70/72/76 for 4:41 to win.

2019 Outdoors, she got the baton in 15th, 21 seconds back and reportedly split 66/69/71/71 for 4:37 to finish something like 7 seconds back in 5th place.

Outdoors was excellent racing. If that race had been 400 meters longer she may have won. Indoors went out way too fast. If that race had been 400 meters longer, she may have lost. But, did not run the first 800 in either race in 2:09.

It wasn't an aberration. The aberration was her 4:33 mile last spring, which was absolutely a really well-run race all on her own in hot conditions.

I just wish she'd attempt to run some negative splits or even just try sitting and kicking the last 400 meters. She runs so many races during the year that there's plenty of low-key meets where she could do this and risk taking a loss here and there without it being a big deal. I look at other young milers like Starliper and Parks, and while I think they're still a slight notch below Tuohy, they're at least learning to race different ways even if it means losing here and there. They'll be better off for it in the long run.

I agree that it would be better for her at least some times to try to run a negative split. She is sufficiently faster than most of her competition, even at the national level, that she should be able to win running like that - at least in the 2 mile, although some competition is getting closer. I just don't think there have been many (I cant think of another) times when she has gone out way too fast on the track like she did in that one DMR. To date, her best runs have been running a slightly positive split like in the 4:33+ mile, or in her best 3000/3200/2 mile runs which have been basically steady 4:46-4:50 pace for the first half of the race and then slowing to 5:00 pace for the 2nd half of the race.

Learning how to race in different way? If she runs an even pace, like she did in her HS mile record, she'll run a fast time, if she goes out too fast she'll positive split and a negative split off a slower early pace. She can figure that out and no muscle memory is needed.

wow how did this turn into useful discussion?

I can't believe how fast the calendar is moving by, it's already time for the NY state meet and the 5k race against the pros.

Friday June 7 - 3000m v. Chmiel - a race between the 2 time 1st and 2nd placers at NXN, with both apparently healthy. This should get a little hype like Parks v. Starliper.

Saturday June 8 - 1500m v. Walters. Walters keeps improving, certainly capable of a 4:25 pr, so this could also be a race.

Thursday June 13 - 5000m v. pros at Martinez Classic.

This week of racing should give a good indication of what her real current fitness level is.

rockland guy wrote:

wow how did this turn into useful discussion?

I can't believe how fast the calendar is moving by, it's already time for the NY state meet and the 5k race against the pros.

Friday June 7 - 3000m v. Chmiel - a race between the 2 time 1st and 2nd placers at NXN, with both apparently healthy. This should get a little hype like Parks v. Starliper.

Saturday June 8 - 1500m v. Walters. Walters keeps improving, certainly capable of a 4:25 pr, so this could also be a race.

Thursday June 13 - 5000m v. pros at Martinez Classic.

This week of racing should give a good indication of what her real current fitness level is.

The reality is the last few races vs Chmiel have not been that close. But agree she will probably need to run ~9:20 and ~4:20 to win this week, which will reveal her fitness at this time.

rockland guy wrote:

wow how did this turn into useful discussion?

I can't believe how fast the calendar is moving by, it's already time for the NY state meet and the 5k race against the pros.

Friday June 7 - 3000m v. Chmiel - a race between the 2 time 1st and 2nd placers at NXN, with both apparently healthy. This should get a little hype like Parks v. Starliper.

Saturday June 8 - 1500m v. Walters. Walters keeps improving, certainly capable of a 4:25 pr, so this could also be a race.

Thursday June 13 - 5000m v. pros at Martinez Classic.

This week of racing should give a good indication of what her real current fitness level is.

Wow, a lot of racing for a HS junior girl. Keep chasing it.....

pile it on wrote:

rockland guy wrote:

wow how did this turn into useful discussion?

I can't believe how fast the calendar is moving by, it's already time for the NY state meet and the 5k race against the pros.

Friday June 7 - 3000m v. Chmiel - a race between the 2 time 1st and 2nd placers at NXN, with both apparently healthy. This should get a little hype like Parks v. Starliper.

Saturday June 8 - 1500m v. Walters. Walters keeps improving, certainly capable of a 4:25 pr, so this could also be a race.

Thursday June 13 - 5000m v. pros at Martinez Classic.

This week of racing should give a good indication of what her real current fitness level is.

Wow, a lot of racing for a HS junior girl. Keep chasing it.....

this is nothing, 2 races in 2 days, then 1 last 1 a week later. Did you see Hart ran 5 races in 2 days recently? Several others have done 4. Is there some rule that she should only race once per month???

pile it on wrote:

Wow, a lot of racing for a HS junior girl. Keep chasing it.....

In the past four weeks, she's run an 800, two 1500s, a mile, a 3000, and a 400 relay leg. That's about 5.5 miles of racing at 10 seconds per mile slower than PR pace for the most part. Probably a lighter load than most high school runners.

webby wrote:

pile it on wrote:

Wow, a lot of racing for a HS junior girl. Keep chasing it.....

In the past four weeks, she's run an 800, two 1500s, a mile, a 3000, and a 400 relay leg. That's about 5.5 miles of racing at 10 seconds per mile slower than PR pace for the most part. Probably a lighter load than most high school runners.

Um, and a 1500, 3000, and 5000 in a 6 day span from this Friday to next Wednesday. Is NR planning on going to NB outdoor?

Don't forget, this is June, been racing since September.

do the math. wrote:

Um, and a 1500, 3000, and 5000 in a 6 day span from this Friday to next Wednesday. Is NR planning on going to NB outdoor?

Don't forget, this is June, been racing since September.

The 5000 is on Thursday 6/13 as noted above. So she has a 3000 Friday, a 1500 Saturday, then 4 days recovery then the 5000. I don't think she (or anyone) has said anything about NR going to NBO.

Tuohy runs 9:22 for a fairly easy win in the 3000. After the race said something about allergies and not feeling well for several weeks. But she does not seem at top form.