yasoo 800s

I think it is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

What correlation is there between repetition 800's and your marathon time. Really?

It would be interesting to see if there is a correlation. Remember it is the average of 10, not just one.

I think the workouts themselves can be fine since for many recreational runners that is close to vVO2max pace.

It is just a pure coincidence that avg times for 10 800's will be close to what you could do a marathon in with proper training. However it is still a very good w.o for anyobe at any level. I just prefer to leave off the Runnersworld ties and just call it 10 x 800's.

Actually it isn't all that far off. Like many of these types of training/racing associations it has to be "taken with a grain of salt".

I think that it isn't a predictive thing, rather a training tool to determine training pace FROM marathon performance (or realistic goal) rather than the other way around. It is an easy to remember tool that works for 800's.

i.e. 3hrs - 3min

2h50 - 2.50

2h40 - 2.40

2h30 - 2.30 etc.

The 800's themselves have nothing to do with marathon PACE, but seem more related to MVO2 Intervals for someone wondering what level might be appropriate for a given marathon target (or PB). Of course if one had a coach, then this wouldn't be necessary - but it targets the RW type of person (for whom it was intended) who is looking for an easy to determine session. If one assumes that your 5km time is your MVO2 pace for Intervals, then these 800's are pretty close (from a generalized program kind of way).

However, it does presume that your endurance is quite good, or the 800's may be a bit fast for each particular level.

Last summer I ran 10 x 800 several times averaging 2:20-2:25 with a 1 minute rest.

My marathon PR is 2:52 and according to RW my weekly miles and long runs are more than adequate to run a decent marathon, but obviously I need a better overall aerobic base.

My conclusion: 10 x 800 is a great workout, but has no correlation to marathoning.

I could do 800's all day at 2:20 and have a very good aerobic base, but no way in hell could I run 2:20 for a marathon right now.

No correlation for me either (this is doing 10x200 with 200 jog recovery). I would be a much faster marathoner if there was. I know of several others who have said the same thing.

Perhaps 15x800 is more accurate, but its not a workout I would do.

Wow! 2h52 off of that kind of capability? With that kind of session you should be able to run sub 16min 5k/ sub 33.30 10k and 6min/mile for the Marathon (2h37). If you can't then your LT levels are poor - and/or you simply aren't doing enough proper marathon prep.- how are your Long runs (up to 20m+) and longer Marathon pace runs (10m@MP = 1hr)?

See Hadd for more specifics on preparation. Either you're training too fast, you just had a bad day or you're missing pieces of the training puzzle.

I know a guy in his 40's who ran 2h52 after a couple years of low-key training, couldn't break 36min for 10k. He definitely couldn't do that session - more like 2.45-2.50 for his 800's. But he did his long runs!

hah... and yet more runnersworld bullshit.

"Steel" wrote:

>it targets the RW type of person (for whom it was intended)

I agree about the target, becausde it appeared in the magazine after all. But the "predictor" was known among people who knew Bart Yasso long before itr appeared in RW. Several guys who had run under 2:20 contributed data points to Bart's analysis. These faster fellas were what convinced Bart that it was not a bad predictor.

And I have found that I ran a little bit faster for the marathon than my 8 x 800 practices would indicate. Go figure.

More like sub 15/32 with that short recovery.

shuffler wrote:

Last summer I ran 10 x 800 several times averaging 2:20-2:25 with a 1 minute rest.

My marathon PR is 2:52 and according to RW my weekly miles and long runs are more than adequate to run a decent marathon, but obviously I need a better overall aerobic base.

My conclusion: 10 x 800 is a great workout, but has no correlation to marathoning.

Yes, low to sub-15 and sub-32. That's about what I run for that workout and I ran a 2:29 last fall BEFORE I could reach those times. Get those long tempos and MP runs in, make sure you pace it right, and you're good for sub-2:30.

As for Y-800s, I think they are fairly accurate even for fast guys if you're in good aerobic shape. Trouble is a lot of 5k types who can burn these don't move up to the marathon well and so theirs predict too fast a time.

I think it's got great value as a negative predictor, but it's positive prediction value is questionable. That's not such a bad thing. You need something to bracket your performance goals, both positive and negative.

So, the way I look at it doing 10x800 in 3 minutes may not get you that sub-3 marathon, but if you CAN'T do 10x800 in 3 it's a real bad idea to go out running 6:52's.

Both types of feedback are needed, and the Yasso 800's are another tools to add to the bag. (Besides, Bart's a real nice guy that doesn't deserve to be ragged on.)

Sorry, other than the MVO2 discussion, not one of these post makes a connection between the Yasso 800's and overall marathon capabilities. What does running for under 3 minutes several times have to do with running for over 2 hours.

Yes, I did 16 x 200 in 32 seconds last night, so I believe that I can run 32:00 for 10k. It's dumb!

"Bart's a real nice guy that doesn't deserve to be ragged on."

I agree that he's a good fella, but I have in the past and will int eh future rag on him for wearing those nancy-boy tights

I'd say the yasso 800s are only accurate if you've been training for the marathon for a while. I did 8 x 800 yesterday, averaging 2:28 for the first 7, then ran 2:17 for the last one. With that workout, I know I could have averaged 2:27 for 10, though my recovery was 2 minutes. If the recovery would have been 1, it would have been quite a bit slower, I don't know, maybe 2:32 for 10. I'm definitely not in that kind of shape, as I'm really training for the 3200 in track at around 70 mpw.

"I agree that he's a good fella, but I have in the past and will int eh future rag on him for wearing those nancy-boy tights."

OK, I'll give you that one. It's not a pretty graphic. Maybe that's why those Yaks or whatever charged him in the himilayas.

Hold on....

I may be wrong here, but I didn\'t think that Bart or RW ever claimed the workout to be a PREDICTOR. I thought that it was supposed to be an easy way to figure out what kind of workout intensity might be approprate for a marathoner wanting to run a VO2 type workout.

Obviously people can run much faster than is required in many types of workouts, and this doesn\'t make them in any better shape....

no. runnersworld clearly said that yasso 800s were a predictions of how you would do in a marathon. run 2:30 800s and you can most likely run a 2:30 marathon. not that i go to their website... i sure as hell don't subscribe to their magazine...