Look at us now wrote:
hofst wrote:
So your evidence is all anecdotal based?
In my post — yes. I said as much. I can trot out the peer-reviewed publications, but so can you. Google Scholar is free.
It's not unusual for people to ask for support for claims they are making, and when that support is only anecdotal I don't think it carries as much weight. That's all I was pointing out.
Look at us now wrote:
hofst wrote:
So your evidence is all anecdotal based?
In my post — yes. I said as much. I can trot out the peer-reviewed publications, but so can you. Google Scholar is free.
Are you aware of actual peer reviewed studies that show this? It would be surprising to me. Most colleges have gotten more selective in recent years, not less. So at a minimum, they are admitting a higher caliber of student then they were in past years.
killermike wrote:
Look at us now wrote:
In my post — yes. I said as much. I can trot out the peer-reviewed publications, but so can you. Google Scholar is free.
Are you aware of actual peer reviewed studies that show this? It would be surprising to me. Most colleges have gotten more selective in recent years, not less. So at a minimum, they are admitting a higher caliber of student then they were in past years.
More selective in what way?
IIPUI wrote:
killermike wrote:
Are you aware of actual peer reviewed studies that show this? It would be surprising to me. Most colleges have gotten more selective in recent years, not less. So at a minimum, they are admitting a higher caliber of student then they were in past years.
More selective in what way?
Average standardized test scores admitted
no college wrote:
or typical liberal arts colleges.
My wife has a liberal arts in biology and manages a QC division at a major pharmaceutical company. Should I get her fired?
Average standardized test scores admitted[/quote]
standardized tests are rigged and not a good measure of anything.
People forget how important networking is. The wife here probably was a good networker and got that great job even w/a liberal arts degree.
Sixty percent of those who graduate from trade school earn more than the average college graduate. Some would say that proves college is not necessary. People attend a four year college because of a desire to do a particular type of work. Telling a college graduate with an education in a broad field of study that an aircraft jet engine mechanic, electrician or plumber earn more, a college graduate would say, "Okay." If one does not want to do physically demanding work, one will attend college. The free market states 100% opposite what OP is stating. College tuition continues to rise due to demand for college graduates: Harvard to University of Phoenix On-line.
harvard guy wrote:
standardized tests are rigged and not a good measure of anything.
That's simply not true, on both points.
No but she also was smart to use her network wrote:
The wife here probably was a good networker
Is that what they're calling it now?
A college degree show people have been able to jump through hoops and keep at it until they graduate. That is valued.
A college graduate from a good university indicates they probably are smart and are able to jump through hoops.
There are exceptions but as a rule people hiring want some evidence a person being hired has some qualifications. Interviews are short and not that much information is actually transferred.
It isn't perfect but a degree good as an indicator that a person will continue to jump through the right hoops to pursue a goal.
I flunked out of college twice. I just couldn’t do it. I just couldn’t bullshit. Everything they taught was bullshit, and I fought daily with professors. I knew it was bullshit. Bullshit.
I’m now 35. Self employed out here in the real world. Net worth in the millions. Not financially held down by some management position at a large company. The sky is the limit out here in the field. I’m teaching my 4 kids this. None of them will go to college. They will be building wealth instead of bullshitting in school.
The man that works and leverages his savings is the man that will become rich.
This thread reminds me of the seminal Onion article on this very important topic....
https://www.theonion.com/im-not-one-of-those-fancy-college-educated-doctors-1819584293
I think our goal, as a society, should to obtain the least amount of education possible and celebrate the exceptions (i.e. those rare individuals who have built fortunes without any education) rather than push for a path that is statistically more likely to help one achieve success.
It's not the education per se as much as were you too dumb to even get into a college. Or how smart were you up to HS that you got into a top tier school. College education is only necessary if you're going into areas of science and medicine.
Most of the hard work already is done by HS. Getting into a mediocre college and getting As only just prolong the inevitable that you're just a mediocre.
no college wrote:
As college becomes more and more dumbed down, when will a degree become meaningless? I am not talking about top level school as degrees from those school will continue to have meaning for a long time. I'm talking about your state school or typical liberal arts colleges.
At some point those degrees will become just like a high school degree. My guess is around 2035.
When court cases that stop companies from giving tests prior to hiring are reversed.
One theory on why college became required for so many jobs stems from the SCOUTS decision Griggs v Duke Power. The case seriously restricted the use of testing. So employers figured they would let college survey as a proxy. Plenty of jobs now require a college degree that before only required perhaps a few courses at a "business school". My mom went to such a school after high school to learn basic office work like bookkeeping along with typing (it was long ago that being a secretary was one of the few professional options for a woman).
Since then it has become pretty much required.
If you are interested in this topic, I recommend Bryan Caplan's The Case Against Education
no college wrote:
As college becomes more and more dumbed down, when will a degree become meaningless? I am not talking about top level school as degrees from those school will continue to have meaning for a long time. I'm talking about your state school or typical liberal arts colleges.
At some point those degrees will become just like a high school degree. My guess is around 2035.
Some very good engineering schools are state schools...
Some fems get lucky wrote:
It depends on your major.
Even if you get a crap major like Gender Studies or something paper-tiger-ish, if you have a great network, you can get a job, esp. if you are female, right away.
I went into journalism in 2006 and had to start at the bottom, which is fine, but I learned quickly to get good I had to have a good network. It didn't matter how good my writing was.
I changed careers and now do coding/java at a tech firm.
Where did you expect to start in 2006?
killermike wrote:
no college wrote:
As college becomes more and more dumbed down, when will a degree become meaningless? I am not talking about top level school as degrees from those school will continue to have meaning for a long time. I'm talking about your state school or typical liberal arts colleges.
At some point those degrees will become just like a high school degree. My guess is around 2035.
1. College doesn’t make one smarter. It just makes you more educated. As a higher and higher percentage of the population gets college degrees, it stands to reason that many people with very mild intelligence are getting those degrees.
2. Rather than asking whether college is sufficient to produce good employee candidates, the question should be whether college is necessary. If you think college graduates don’t communicate well, you should try talking to 21-year-olds who did not go to college.
1) How do you measure "education"? Many reports are around that show not much learning takes place in college. In some surveys many respondents actually know fewer facts when they leave college than when they came in.
2) Pretty broad statement there as well...
X-Runner wrote:
Some people can do well without a college education but most won't.
And even those that do well initially become limited in how far they can go.
I just don't see the college education rate going down or companies looking for candidates without college.
Define "well".
About 68% of US citizens do not have a bachelor's degree.
I want to go to there! wrote:
This thread reminds me of the seminal Onion article on this very important topic....
https://www.theonion.com/im-not-one-of-those-fancy-college-educated-doctors-1819584293I think our goal, as a society, should to obtain the least amount of education possible and celebrate the exceptions (i.e. those rare individuals who have built fortunes without any education) rather than push for a path that is statistically more likely to help one achieve success.
LMFAO 10/10. Have copied and saved this post so I can use it in future discussions. I'll be sure to cite "random guy on LetsRun" as my source.