Road Racing and Training Thread, Week Ending 5/19/19

OR - Solid enough week for how recently you raced a marathon. In my opinion, you're putting too much weight on what your average pace on any given day is. I thought the point of the 'flyers' was to run at the right effort level for the last 2-5+ miles to feel like you worked hard enough to get something out of it but not so hard you were affected the next day. Especially as we approach warm, humid summer days, I think that's an effort metric, not a pace metric. Viewing it this way would also remove some stress from training I think, which past history would suggest would be beneficial for you.

RRR - 20 hrs is a heck of a workload. It'll be interesting to see how the cross training translates to running for you.

JQ - Very nice 5k PR! Good work! Does the 57.2 I ran in a workout 2 weeks ago count for the 400 challenge? Or do I need to run another one since that was before the official gauntlet was thrown down?

LancRunner - Nice week, especially those 500s. Say hi to the Brooks crew in Seattle. Got spanked by a couple of those guys regularly back when I was in college.

Sub 6:00 - Still impressed you were able to run that fast on limited training after Boston.

TDR - Nice week, but get some strides or something in before that TT and 1500! Gotta keep that turnover sharp.

Guy - Nice week, especially the speed work. That's a good day especially with being on a dirt track.

LongWayFromHome - I think you're in better shape for a 1500 than you might think. That Friday workout is either good or realllly good depending on how honest those jogs were and your Tuesday workout indicates your strength is in a good spot. Might be worth adding 4-8 200's at roughly 1500 pace or some strides after a couple of your 'normal' runs just to get that 1500 pace feeling normal again but otherwise I think you'll be ready to roll.

Cocoon - Good volume. Not a marathon guy but hard long runs seems to make sense training for that event.

Bruin - Very nice week as usual. How does a HIIT workout with rowing or core between reps work? Are you running a rep at 5:33 pace and then rowing for a while?

Need to catch up here, but thought I would duck in with an important development.

OR/SC 2.0 began yesterday. More details to follow. I just got home from work and need to run...literally.

Plus in that hypothetical scenario where she didn't drop you with several miles to go, you could have actually been first overall master's runner that year instead of settling for second.

Thankfully, they did not reduce my paycheck for the "win."

Allen - Yes me and pap talk daily and I still seek his guidance on various ideas.. mainly to tell me if something I am doing is stupid! His knees were getting better but now seemingly back to square one. Pretty sure he is going to start biking a lot more at least in the short term. I would do more of those wide split squats and maybe some lunge squats if they dont hurt.

Smoove, your Deena story reminds me that in my last marathon, I was 2nd M55-59, but 3rd overall 55-59. A 55-year-old woman from Minnesota bettered me by more than two minutes, running 3:04:59 (89% AG).

Just now, for the first time, I researched a bit about her: With no former athletic history, she began running at age 40. She runs only three days a week -- speed, tempo and long run -- lifts and cross-trains (elliptical, bike, rower).

Sounds like an approach I've been stumbling toward. I've returned to a modest weight-lifting routine and been on the bike and elliptical. Maybe it's time to bring the kayak back out of the barn.

Interesting stories, drcrusher and darkwave. I agree with you, darkwave. Racing is racing. I say use whatever approach works best for you.

I love your handle, drcrusher. Keep crushin’ ‘em.

LongWayFromHome wrote:

Sub 6:00:

LongWayFromHome - Under 2:30 is my basic goal for Chicago. If the cycle shapes up well, I might aim for a PR (2:26:56).

Nice, I will be in a similar boat and may want to pick your brain and/or steal a bit if thats okay on workouts and structure for that training. I'll be rooting for a smooth buildup for you.

By all means. For what it’s worth, your listed PRs are similar to mine, set within a couple years on either side of my marathon debut/PR.

Sub 6:00 wrote:

PM - I’m actually going to be in Spain and Portugal for a bit next month. (Flying into Madrid and out of Lisbon.) My wife interned at the US Embassy in Madrid in college and we’ve talked about going back for years. She never made it to Portugal when she was there, but always wanted to. I doubt I’ll do any road racing though!

I can give you some tips on the 'do's and don'ts' in Lisbon! Also, we can meet up and get some miles in!

As for etiquette, I've had 2 races where I paced people.

One of them I was pacing my GF at the time for a PB and the 2nd place on a 10k. I was pacing her with a random guy who talked to us on the 1st km. He told us he would check behind for the 3rd girl and I would take care of the pace. On the last 300m we knew the 2nd place was hers and decided to fall back and let her have 'her moment' with the cameras and all of that. More than 3 people asked me how it was to get crushed by a girl near the finish line... sigh.

The second one was on a race I enrolled because it was organized by the faculty of medicine of Lisbon and I decided to donate the money of the bib to an institution. A random guy asked for my help to get below 45'. I was doing 20k on that day and decided that the middle 10k at 4:30 would be a good long run. Everything was going smoothly, we were going to finish in 44:2x. On the last 100m, as I was going to congratulate him for his time, he just gets out of my shadow and sprints towards the finish line. Not even a 'thank you for the help'. Needless to say that after the finish line I told him some nasty things and that if he wanted to race me I was more than happy to wait for him at the finish line of a 10k already showered and changed due to the 5' I would put on him.

My daughter is going to Spain next summer for 2 weeks. For a school trip (it’s a small group trial run for the school). Hitting all the major cities.

Beautiful calm morning here. 200s on the docket. If feeling it is it time for the (horrible sounding) JQ 400 TT?! We shall see

Allen: Ah, I though you were at like 10-12 last week.

On the 400 Challenge: I'm sure that I don't know how to properly empty the tank in a 400 and would be more likely to hurt myself if I did. Its an interesting experiment though. And as several people have pointed out, it seems to have opened up some possibilities for me at least mentally, i.e., maybe I am ready to push it on some speedwork. Perhaps I will consider this as rut-buster in the future. Things getting stale? Rest up, throw one down and see what happens.

stuck to my workout and am saving the JQ 400 Challenge for post 2 mile race. Think I may pop a time and dont wanna be an idiot and pull a hammy or something.

Agree with ya Guy .. sometimes gotta do something and see what happens... have fun cause I mean .,. we run cause its fun no?

Added statfanatic's crazy workout time! Hope everyone TTs safely :).

And yes I totally agree with the sentiment that it's something fun and boundary pushing for us mostly distance folks! But yes pls be careful all I don't wanna cause any injuries ;_;

Current JQ 400 entrant list:

runrincerepeat

LancRunner

darkwave

jot quill

Guy Broman - 68.25

statfanatic - 57.2 in a workout like a BEAST

Male, 25, 6’4”, 151lbs

PRs: 4:54 (mile), 16:56, 1:18:00, 28:01 (8k 2015), 2:47:14 (all 2018 but 8k)

Goal: Philly Marathon, be back into full mileage by July

Mn - 9.75 @ 8:00s

Tu - 10x500 w/ 300 rec + WU/WD = 10 (w/ fiancee)

Wd - 5.25 @ 7:45s (w/ fiancee)

Th - 5k in 19:18 + WU/WD = 9.75

Fr - OFF

Sa - 5k in 18:46 + WU/WD = 8.75

Su - 13 @ 8:05s (w/ fiancee)

Total - 58.75

Tu - 1:47 5x1:50, 2x1:51, 2x1:49 (pacing fiancee)

Sa - one short wrong turn, got first by 25s. GPS had 3.22 but probably more like 3.13-3.15

Su - last three miles over 9 min pace, 'ran out of sweat'. finacee dropped me after I slowed down, nixed plan for 15 mid run (to hit 60)

BHViking: Thanks for the information about this Stryd feature. I mainly use my Stryd footpod as a distance tracker so haven't really used any of the other power-related features at all. I tend to follow my effort by my HR during training and races. Do you do this with the Stryd app or are you able to add this functionality to a Garmin GPS watch?

JamesTheAmateur: The 3x2 with 800 Recovery is one of Hanson's Marathon Method strength workouts. MAF stands for Maffetone pace (named after Dr. Phil Maffetone) which is an easy run pace based on HR (the formula is 180-age +5 if you have been healthy and have been making competitive progress, -5 if you have recently been injured)

Allen1959: Thanks.. I am going to find some local 5K's and try to join the sub-17 club. I may be running another half marathon next weekend and then plan to focus on shorter races. I am going to look for some local track meets open to masters to try some shorter races like 1500/mile and 3000/2 mile. I recently ran a track 5K(2nd repeat of a 2x5K track workout) at 16:31 so I think I have a good chance at going sub-17.

MikeG83: With your speed at the shorter races, I have no doubts that with marathon training and longer runs to build your aerobic base and endurance that you will crush the longer distance races.

statfanatic: The treadmil HIIT workouts basically are when I do Orange Theory Fitness classes. OTF is a 1 hour long HR-based boot camp where we do high intensity interval strength training(TRX, dumb bells, medicine balls, body weight exercises, core exercises, etc), rowing on the Water Rower, and running on the treadmill. I mainly do OTF to ensure I get in strength/cross training but I think the HIIT treadmill running has definitely helped my cadence and stride length as well. Everyday there is a different workout on the treadmill but I typically run between 10-12 mph (adjusting speed down as needed with inclines up to 15%). Sometimes we do up to 27-28 minutes continuously on the treadmill but other times we do shorter treadmill blocks (as short as 30 seconds of all out effort) with rowing or strength training in between.

JQ: Next time I hit the track I will be sure to do a 400 time trial to add myself to the JQ 400. I did a 12x400 last year between 68-75 seconds per 400 so will be going for something a little faster than 68 seconds.

Bruin1996 wrote:

I recently ran a track 5K(2nd repeat of a 2x5K track workout) at 16:31 so I think I have a good chance at going sub-16.

Fixed it for you.

Just finished 2nd at my workplace 5K in around 16:50! Don't think I can count it as a PR though because the course isn't exactly official (but we did have timing chips!)

On the other hand, the weather was hilariously stormy which felt like running through a hail storm and wading through lakes + out and back on a narrow stretch so on the return I had to weave in and out of a lot of my fellow employees (roughly 1100 runners) so it might have been a PR effort :P.

Guess that counts as my Thursday workout!

PutoMiudo wrote:

Sub 6:00 wrote:

PM - I’m actually going to be in Spain and Portugal for a bit next month. (Flying into Madrid and out of Lisbon.) My wife interned at the US Embassy in Madrid in college and we’ve talked about going back for years. She never made it to Portugal when she was there, but always wanted to. I doubt I’ll do any road racing though!

I can give you some tips on the 'do's and don'ts' in Lisbon! Also, we can meet up and get some miles in!

For sure. I’ll be there June 22-25. I believe we are staying in Alfama.