Road Racing and Training Thread, Week Ending 5/19/19

RRR— I knew you were hitting the cross training hard but wasn’t sure if it was intentional training or just for fun or both! Can’t wait to see how it all comes together! Remind me: What spurred this for you?

I like volume/work. And if can’t run it all I’m gonna do something.

What I have noticed about biking is. It makes tempo pace feel so much easier. Perceived effort. I reckon cause of the increased general cardio stroke. The legs still build the lactate at close to the same rate but the cardio is so much easier.

LebanonHills wrote:

-all this cross training has me wondering if there’s been any “planned” successes where runners have cross trained like 80% of the time and only did their running on tired legs after being on the bike or elliptical for say an hour? It may be a great way to build aerobic capacity (as you can often push harder in cross training) while staving off injury caused by the impact of running. Then again the importance of growing accustomed to that impact can’t be minimized.

I'm a big fan of using cross-training to build volume for those of us who can't handle high volumes of running. But....

I strongly believe that when combining cross-training with running, you always want to do the activity with the highest injury risk first, when you are freshest. That means running first, and then getting on the trainer or the elliptical to add volume.

Doing a minimal amount of running only on tired legs strikes me as a near-guaranteed injury. As any triathlete will tell you, starting a run on legs tired from another activity is very hard on the body.

[incidentally, that's why the order of sports in triathlon is swim, bike, run. Because exhaustion during open water swimming is more dangerous than exhaustion while riding a bike hard in a group on the roads, which in turn is more risky than running on the roads.]

I like to at least spin the legs out on the bike for 30+ mins before I run. Really loosens them up and gets the blood flowing which makes them feel better. But nothing hard. If I go hard on the bike in early AM. I then left and give the legs a break before I run on them.

Good point about sequence, Darkwave

What running I did this week (Tu, W, Th, and F) was excellent. While I like having a goal race and a solidified weekly plan to get me there, there is something to be said for unstructured running done at whatever pace feels good to my legs and lungs and for as long as they want to go (or until I have to get back home to get ready for work -- whichever comes first). Morning conditions continued to be really good. One morning the sky was low and I knew it would rain, but the sun was out in a window of clouds for a while which made a rainbow that spanned the entire sky in front of me for a while. That was unexpectedly beautiful and lifted my spirits enough that when the sun was swallowed up by the clouds and the rain started to fall, I didn't mind it so much.

Because of the weekend bicycling adventure, my week's running mileage was low (only 29).

Saturday we cycled a portion of Skyline Drive in Shenandoah NP -- from just south of the Swift Run Gap entrance north to Upper Hawksbill trail head with a rest at Big Meadows on the way back south. It was just shy of 40 miles round trip. My longest ride in over a year. I don't bike all that much but would like to do more of it this year as my husband has really gotten into riding over running and it's something to do with him now that he doesn't run much. What's kind of funny is that I am not at all competitive while biking (unlike while running!). I just go for even effort, particularly when I haven't ridden much and it's as hilly as it is on Skyline Drive. I do just enough to get myself up that hill and to be sure I'll have enough to get through however long a ride it's going to be. Almost 4000 ft of climb Saturday and my legs were pretty much noodles when we were done.

Sunday we decided to do something easier and drove up to Gettysburg to ride the park there. Much easier riding, my legs were feeling decent on the not-hilly roads. But it was really hot. Not ready for or used to that at all. Also, I fell when we stopped to rest at Little Round Top and I couldn't get my left foot out of the pedal before I tipped over. I didn't get hurt but the "crash" busted the clamp on the back wheel skewer and the wheel wouldn't stay seated in the frame, so we had to cut the ride short at 18 miles.

One of the best things about biking on the roads in Shenandoah and in Gettysburg is that they are so nice -- smooth and nary a pothole. If only all roads could be so nice.

This morning I could feel those bike miles in my legs but it wasn't too bad. However I felt terrible as everything I ate this weekend felt like it was still with me and I was heavy and sluggish -- AND it was humid and 73. Crash course in summer-time exercise these last few days.

I have enjoyed reading about every one else's weeks. Talk of races is invigorating and motivating. But this week for me is going to be another lower mileage week as I have some traveling to do on Saturday and Sunday that will make it hard to get everything in unless I juggle things ... I'll work on the schedule.

Have a good week everyone and thanks for listening!

JQ - Congrats on the new PR and breaking a threshold. Don't worry about me, one of my general training philosophies is that I don't really believe "making up for lost workouts" or cramming fitness is practical or sustainable. What is done is done, and move on from there. Also with 2 weeks to my next half marathon I can only do so much anyway.

RRR - I'm proud of you for not feeding the impulse to hop on the whip for 9 more miles to hit an even 200. Know when to hold 'em.

Sub 6:00 - if you add up total miles run and total time run for those 4 races against your "enemy," I'm guessing you're winning? Always some way to make the numbers tell the story you want to hear...

James - might I recommend aiming for something closer to 40mi next week? I guess I don't know your recent past beyond two weeks, but 20, 30, 50 is a heckuva jump if you weren't there a month ago. Better to base future training off of actual training rather than planned training.

M35, 5’10”, 160

Upcoming:

5/26 - Cisco / Runners Alley 5k

6/8 - Market Square Day 10k

6/20 - JP Morgan Corporate Challenge - Boston

...

10/13 - Chicago

Mo: off - strained calf last week at a trail race. Checked in with PT and got some stretches/strengthening tips.

Tu: off

We: easy 5 AM, easy 3 lunchtime

Th: easy 3 AM, 8mi PM - local trail series "10k" at threshold effort (won the race and a pineapple)

Fr: 9 recovery treadmill

Sa: 19 mi at 7:10

Su: 5 easy

Total: 54 miles

First time poster! I've had great consistency over the past year moving my mileage up from 40-50 back solidly into the 60s most weeks. This past week I had a little hiccup by straining my soleus in the previous Thursday's 10k trail race which I typically just try to use as a threshold effort since they are every week in May. I think I'm good to go now though, I felt great in my long run on Saturday. First time using compression socks this week in most runs. Slowly building up to Chicago (which I noticed Sub 6:00 is also running, at the same age/height/weight - whoa) in the fall, but in the meantime I am feeling ready to take down some ~10+ year old PRs in shorter distances. Next up: hoping to better my 5k PR of 16:41 from 2006.

** Stellar weeks everyone, comments later"

40 y old/Male/175 lbs

PR's:

a) Marathon: 3:06:4x

b) Half: 1:26:1x

c) 10K: 39:1x

Goals:

1) Run a sub 3 marathon in 2019

2) Time-qualify for New York Marathon in 2019 (run 1:24:59 for the half)

M: 10.2 @ 8:17

T: 7 @ 8:33

W: 2 @ 8

Th: 14.3 @ 7:20 with 10 x 4 mins @ 6:25-6:30 with 3 mins recovery.

F: 10 @ 8:30

Sa: 8 @ 8:15

Su: 20 @ 7:25

Weekly mileage: 71.8 miles

a) Marathon in 6 weeks, so will try to hit a few 70 mile weeks between now and marathon

b) Decent week overall. Very busy at work, so was able to do the mid-week workout only on Thursday instead of the planned Wednesday. Felt that I was not straining to hit the 6:25-6:30 pace for the faster section.

c) First 20 miler after Boston. Followed my policy of hitting the long runs hard - still not sure if this benefits me or hurts me :). I will re-adjust based on how the marathon on June 30 goes.

Cocoon; Solid long runs! June marathon? Hope that's up north!

44 year old guy, 5'6 124 lbs

PR's (recent from 2018-2019): 5K 17:05, 10K 34:52, Half 1:15 (1:13 on a downhill half), Full 2:42

Mon: Treadmill Strength Intervals 3x2/0.5 Rec (10:48, 10:43, 10:07 Rec 3:25). WU 1@6:43, CD 1@6:36

Tue: Treadmill HIIT 4.6@5:33 (strength and rowing recovery between treadmill intervals)

Wed: AM Treadmill Tempo 8@5:41

PM Treadmill Easy 4.1@7:12

Thu: AM Treadmill HIIT 4.7@5:35 (strength, core, rowing recovery between treadmill intervals)

PM Easy Park 8.1@7:48

Fri: Easy Road with Hill Loops 9@7:30

Sat: Road/Trail Run (1591 elevation gain) 13.1@7:52

Sun: Treadmill Easy MAF 4.2@7:10

Some comments for this week:

OR: Solid week of training with a lot of progression runs to fast finishes

RRR: Lots of hours of training this week. Look forward to seeing you crush it at that road 2 mile race.

JQ: Congrats on the sub-17 5K.. massive PR and you crushed it for 3rd overall.

Smoove: Glad to see you slowly getting back into running.

LancRunner: Nice pace for your tempo run.

GT: Nothing you can do about a sick child and missed/delayed airplane flights. Nice to get 42 miles for the week despite all of that.

Sub-6:00: Solid 10K tuneup race despite pretty awful weather conditions.

dirtroadsc: Congratulations on the PR for the weekly mileage.

Allen1959: I have never been a cyclist but 19 mph sounds really fast to me. Hope you are fully recovered before that race.

TDR: Solid week of training.

darkwave: Nice long run on Sunday.. maintaining a pace of sub-7 for a long run is a solid effort.

GFMAH: Hope you fully recover from your PF. Sounds like a rough injury to have to run through.

Guy Broman: Solid 400 at 68.25 seconds.

Coyote Montane: Thanks for the advice about whether it is important to hit certain paces at workouts. I think it is more about the effort particularly if there is suboptimal (e.g. hot here in California) weather. Good luck at Bolder Boulder!

Distance over Time: Welcome to the thread! I don't use compression socks but I use compression calf sleeves (Zensah) along with Wrightsocks blister resistant socks. This combination has worked out well for me at races and for 16+ mile long runs. I don't usually wear the compression calf sleeves for workouts, tempo runs, easy runs or even medium long runs(11-15 miles).

LongwayfromHome: Nice set of workouts. will definitely be interested in following your buildup to Berlin and hoping you can go well below 2:30 in your debut.

Urban Diesel: Nice week of training especially all of that elevation gain (hills = strength training for runners right?)

BHViking: Nice aerobic base building week. I use a Stryd footpod too. What is this Stryd threshold test? Is it some way for you to calculate lactate threshold using your Stryd footpod?

JTA: Hope you feel better from your stomach bug and can increase your mileage next week.

statfanatic: Impressive 1500 race. Great job! Strong week of training as usual.

LebanonHills: Recovering nicely from your tendinitis with the last week of training.

drcrusher: Sounds like a really nice biking adventure you had there.

MikeG83: Welcome to the thread! 16:41 5K is a solid time.. good luck with getting a PR!

cocoon: Nice week of training especially the 20 mile long run.

dirtroadSC wrote:

Cocoon; Solid long runs! June marathon? Hope that's up north!

Haha. Seattle - so not too worried about heat or humidity.

JQ - Way to CRUSH the 5k. That's a big ole PR!

33/5-6/too small for America's Biggest Loser

10k in October

Chicago in the Fall

Goals: Have fun, TBD

Ran 15 miles this week - ranging from 3.5 to 4.5. Friday's run included a 6:59, 6:26. Felt good to go, but still have some ankle tenderness.

Biked 65.

Number of beers was somewhere between the number of miles ran vs. biked.

Slowly getting back into it.

GT - your comment was spot on last week. The fire is still there. Between time constraints and health constrains, may choose to adjust this year's marathon goal, though. Work is heating at up, and at some point trying to squeeze out that extra drip of performance means I'm giving up something else. As much as I want get the most of my athleticless body, I’m not sure I’m willing to do what it takes. To a point, yes, but the question of how far is unanswered today.

Ultimately, I'm okay with whatever I decide. Going to stay unstructured the next few weeks and just have some fun. Have a two week excursion starting at the end of June that will involve quite a bit of hiking. Will get back with 13 weeks to Chicago. The next six will really determine how much I can reasonably stress my body for those thirteen weeks.

Coach Jeff - I LOLed at your heating a small Alaskan town comment in last week's thread. However, between that and the desire to nap post meal, do you foresee yourself revisiting your prior diet?

10k should read 10k in August. I guess the marathon was already on my mind.

Smoove: Best to tinker with form at the very beginning so you can focus on only that. Best of luck.

Lanc: Ah, 500's. Just ike a 400, except they last forever somehow. Tough.

Dirtroad: Solid week with some faster work and sounds like a mileage PR. Nice

Allen: That is a big mileage jump, way to be! Also, I am truly startled to learn that it will be august in 11 weeks.

JQ: BOSS!!! The PR is great, but on top of two workouts during the week? Unless you work for USATF, you're really going to make everyone look like chumps at the work race.

darkwave: Pretty nice week even with a so-so session.

Distance over Time: Welcome! Others here know far better than me, but I just wanted to recommend running really, really, upsettingly slowly when reaching for a big mileage jump.

James: I gotta know more about how you did 6 miles on artificial turf. Back and forth on a football field?

MikeG83: Welcome! I too am taking a crack at PRs from a decade ago shortly. Good luck!

Guy Broman wrote:

JQ: BOSS!!! The PR is great, but on top of two workouts during the week? Unless you work for USATF, you're really going to make everyone look like chumps at the work race.

Actually been scoping out some top finishers from last year at the work race... I'm hoping for top 3 with 1st as a stretch. Office size of 10,000+ helps :P.

But yeah I wasn't really intending to taper or anything for the 5K this past weekend. To be fair my prior 5K PR of 17:33 11 weeks ago was pretty soft if comparing against my HM time for example (plus it was quite hilly) so the dramatic drop isn't too crazy. Still very happy though! Wasn't expecting to do that well but hey sometimes you keep your eyes off the watch, chase some competitors and stuff happens :D

Bruin1996 wrote:

BHViking: Nice aerobic base building week. I use a Stryd footpod too. What is this Stryd threshold test? Is it some way for you to calculate lactate threshold using your Stryd footpod?

Hey Bruin,

Yes, it's a test that is supposed to give an estimate of MLSS (Maximal Lactate Steady State). They call it the Critical Power (CP) test or Functional Threshold Power (FTP) test.

Granted, I know that Stryd isn't actually measuring true "power" but one thing I am confident in is it's repeatability. To me, it seems to be a Grade Adjusted Pace tool, which I find very valuable.

If this Threshold estimate is even close to accurate, then that is a pretty nice feedback for Tempo Runs and races. I have my watch setup to display %MaxHR and %FTP. So, if I'm seeing over 100% FTP then it's possible that I'm over LT and need to back off unless it's late in the race or something like a 5K/10K. For my hilly half marathon in a few weeks, I'm going to dial into something in the very general range of 96-97% FTP for the first 10 miles or so and hopefully feel fresh enough to either maintain that through the finish or speed up a bit. The jury is still out on how useful this is but we'll see how it goes!

I always seem to be late to this post...the Sundays are always my Achilles tendon haha.

Recovery week for me. Ran 10k on tuesday, wednesday and 8k on thursday at 5:15-5:00 min/km, a progression 12km on Sunday (started at 5:30 and ended at 4:30/4:20 min/km) and some 8x45'' on Saturday. My legs got a bit hurt from the Saturday workout and my masseuse told me, on today's treatment, that I had a considerable contracture (is this even the english term?) in my hamstring, maybe due to pushing more than I should on those fast intervals...

This week will be fun. I have some quarters planed, but I'm not going for that 400m challenge. I want to be injury free for the rest of the season haha. Just some mileage bump before the 10k in two weeks...

Some comments:

JQ - Woahh!!! Way to hammer that 5k...

Sub6 - Congrats on the 6th place. Come run in Portugal and that time will, most likely, be enough to win most of the 10ks haha.

Cocoon- How did you feel after that 10x4'? I usually do 5 of them and I'm already dead....

PutoMiudo wrote:

Cocoon- How did you feel after that 10x4'? I usually do 5 of them and I'm already dead....

I tend to run this at just about my half marathon pace, so they feel decent. If I am running them at 5K/10K pace, I am sure I can't do more than 5 :).