You're also missing the fact that you shouldn't be basing any paces on your goal times - you need to focus on your actual times achieved.
So, rather than thinking about easy run pace for 5km @ 6:06/mi, you should be thinking about whether what you run is suitable for 5km @ 6:55/mi.
Rule of thumb for easy pace, and if you know HR zones use them instead, is 5km-pace (achieved, not goal!) plus 90-120 seconds. So you should be looking at 8:30-9:00 pace, which is fine.
My coach says that workout for aerobic development should be a 50-90% VO2 max. He also doesn't believe in converting between MHR and VO2 Max because he says HR is an unreliable metric of effort depending on time of day, glycogen stores, etc.
You could approximate (current) 5k PR as close to VO2 max and extrapolate from there...
OR
even easier, simply take the advice of many others on this thread and don't worry so much about a single pace for base mileage, but go at a relaxed speed which is comfortable but not painfully slow. If you are running 5ks in the 21 minute range and that is a current bench mark of your fitness you should not fret about running in the 9 and even 10 minute miles. Considering that many elite athletes also would recover at such speeds when they needed to (Nick Symmonds would run 9 minute miles when he was really burnt out from too much intensity, many east africans will run on their off day progression runs starting at 6:00 min / km (10:00) and then progressing down).
Best listen to your body, don't burn yourself out, and then as you get more fit you can run your easy miles slightly faster, although they should always be comfortable, you shouldn't feel like you are stepping on the gas the whole time.
if you ARE trying to break 19, then you ABSOLUTELY need to toss your GPS watch and just run for time. Aim for 45 min/day for a few months, then slowly add progression runs, longer runs, hills, strides, fartleks...this should progress to tempos and longer intervals like tinman's critical velocity 6xk, 4xmile, etc.
for real real, run every day or as consistently and frequently as possible for the next year.
You will break 16 if you do everything right
THINK LONG TERM
Do you care more about breaking 19 in one or two months, or breaking 16 in three to four years?
There are a lot of ways to go sub 19, especially at your ideal age. I did it at age 50, keeping in mind, this is just one of many ways to do it. But if a 50yo not–that-great-a-runner person such as myself can do it then most anyone can. I ran 5 days a week. Mon’s = 6 miles at 9 to 10 pace, Tue were 3 to 4 miles with 5 hard longish hill repeats, Wed’s were 4 to 6 at 9ish pace, off Thr and Fri, Sat = 7 miles with at least one mile in the 5:50’s, then 8 400’s in approx. 87’s. Sun’s varied 6 to 10 easy, 9 to 10 pace. I went 5:08 1500 and 18:47 5K on that. There are so many ways to slice and dice this. I’ve seen people my age go much faster on just progression runs….of course their last few miles were always sub 6. You can do this!
Ddddxxxxxxx wrote:
No such thing wrote:
No such thing as too slow, only too fast. Mileage makes champs. considering As a example, Henry Rono base phase consisted of 30 km a day at a 5-6 minute kilometer pace(18.6 miles at 8-10 minute mile pace).
So you think jogging 15 min miles helps your fitness?
Some of the elite Japanese marathoners are alleged to do this sort of thing, that is a lot of very long walks.
codaaayyyeee wrote:
Do you care more about breaking 19 in one or two months, or breaking 16 in three to four years?
That's a good question.
The reason I actually started running this past year wasn't because of high school or college competition (I'm 27 years old). The reason I started was actually because my older brother said he, without really training, could wreck me in a 5k no matter how much I train. (He was a D1 xc runner who went sub 30:00 10k in college). He's 28 now and just plays basketball to stay in shape but I have no doubt he could still run under 20:00 for a 5k on basketball shape alone.
So I started running to wreck him. Once I do that, I'm sure he'll start training to wreck me. Before you know it, a couple years from now, I'm guessing we'll both be putting in 80 mile weeks because we're extremely competitive and we both have the genetics to handle it.
So to answer your question, yes I do care about the short term, but only because that will get the ball rolling for the long term. I love running. And I love beating my brother. Perfect combo.
When I first started training, I had no GPS watch. Just knew to be a good distance runner, you have to run a lot(it came intuitively to me). So I just started shuffling 4-8 miles a day, don't know how slow I was going. But it was slow AF. Within about 4 weeks or so of doing this, did a local 10k in either 42 or 45 minutes(can't recall exactly). After another 4 months of doing almost nothing but jogging (of course over the next few months I increased my mileage a bit. But almost all of it was slow AF), I did a hilly half marathon in sub 90 minutes. To the OP, throw away the watch and just focus on putting time on your feet.
mmayna20 wrote:
codaaayyyeee wrote:
Do you care more about breaking 19 in one or two months, or breaking 16 in three to four years?
That's a good question.
The reason I actually started running this past year wasn't because of high school or college competition (I'm 27 years old). The reason I started was actually because my older brother said he, without really training, could wreck me in a 5k no matter how much I train. (He was a D1 xc runner who went sub 30:00 10k in college). He's 28 now and just plays basketball to stay in shape but I have no doubt he could still run under 20:00 for a 5k on basketball shape alone.
So I started running to wreck him. Once I do that, I'm sure he'll start training to wreck me. Before you know it, a couple years from now, I'm guessing we'll both be putting in 80 mile weeks because we're extremely competitive and we both have the genetics to handle it.
So to answer your question, yes I do care about the short term, but only because that will get the ball rolling for the long term. I love running. And I love beating my brother. Perfect combo.
F your brother. He disrespects you. The only way we, or yourself, will ever respect you is when you send him home devastated after a Turkey Trot.
Your 19 minute 5k goal is pathetic. You are pathetic. 19 minute 5k should be your easy tempo pace. Go all in, run on pure hate and show the world who is the better human being.
life coach #3 wrote:
F your brother. He disrespects you. The only way we, or yourself, will ever respect you is when you send him home devastated after a Turkey Trot.
Your 19 minute 5k goal is pathetic. You are pathetic. 19 minute 5k should be your easy tempo pace. Go all in, run on pure hate and show the world who is the better human being.
Well that escalated quickly. lol
Sasha Pachev wrote:
Here is what I found over 34 years of training myself, and watching/helping other runners as far as the base mileage training pace is concerned:
This is actually applicable to a wide range of running ability and fitness level.
- Slower than 10:00 - not much improvement - even if that is all the runner can do for half a mile. If you are stuck there, I think the best way to get out is to run 10:00 for as long as you can, then take a walking break, until you can do it again, and do it until you have run a mile total. Then work on reducing your rest until you can run the full mile in 10:00. Then start extending the distance until you can run a few miles at 10:00 pace. This is how my wife recovers after giving birth (she is a 24:19 5 K runner).
- 9:00 - 10:00 - good pace, will help you develop some. Once you can run 6 miles at that pace, though, you get better results by increasing the pace somewhere in the direction of 8:00 before you start increasing the mileage more.
8:00 - 9:00 - solid fitness development happens here if you are comfortable in this range, increase the mileage to 8 a day.
7:00-8:00 - once you are fit enough to run this pace with a reasonable degree of comfort, that is where aerobic development miracles happen, and you can turn into a beast relative to what you used to me. OK to increase the mileage up until you just do not have the time for more. OK to keep the pace in the slower end of that range if you are doing tempos and intervals.
sub-7:00 - you will continue to develop if you can survive it, so be very careful. At this point you are starting to put some strain on your heart, muscles/tendons/joints, and the hormonal balance. You might be strong enough to take it in all dimensions, or, more common, you will have a weakness in one of those areas that will result in some form of overtraining or injury because your areas of strength make that pace feel easy. At the same time, this pace range does not offer significantly more benefits than 8:00 even if you are strong enough to handle it. Better put most of your efforts into workouts/tempos.
So in summary - I do not believe that the base mileage pace should be just a certain percentage of your race pace. It depends on what your race pace is. If it is in the slow range, your base runs should be more aggressive, and in extreme cases, you do your base runs at faster than your mile race pace in bursts with walking breaks. On the other end of the extreme, if you are world-class you can afford to be way slower than your marathon race pace in your base mileage if you do enough fast running in workouts.
I do not know why it works this way, but my guess is that base mileage training consists of multiple dimensions - muscular, cardio, nervous systems, etc - and in some of those areas there are minimum required levels of intensity you have to reach in order to improve that are not sensitive to your current fitness. E.g. perhaps running slower than 10:00 does not generate enough metabolism to stimulate adequate fat loss or muscle development, or perhaps it makes you practice inferior muscle recruitment patterns, while those barriers get overcome at sub-8:00 pace completely with no new barriers to cross as the pace gets faster.
Interesting perspective
life coach #3 wrote:
mmayna20 wrote:
That's a good question.
The reason I actually started running this past year wasn't because of high school or college competition (I'm 27 years old). The reason I started was actually because my older brother said he, without really training, could wreck me in a 5k no matter how much I train. (He was a D1 xc runner who went sub 30:00 10k in college). He's 28 now and just plays basketball to stay in shape but I have no doubt he could still run under 20:00 for a 5k on basketball shape alone.
So I started running to wreck him. Once I do that, I'm sure he'll start training to wreck me. Before you know it, a couple years from now, I'm guessing we'll both be putting in 80 mile weeks because we're extremely competitive and we both have the genetics to handle it.
So to answer your question, yes I do care about the short term, but only because that will get the ball rolling for the long term. I love running. And I love beating my brother. Perfect combo.
F your brother. He disrespects you. The only way we, or yourself, will ever respect you is when you send him home devastated after a Turkey Trot.
Your 19 minute 5k goal is pathetic. You are pathetic. 19 minute 5k should be your easy tempo pace. Go all in, run on pure hate and show the world who is the better human being.
GOBBLE GOBBLE MOTHERF*CKER
life coach #3 wrote:
F your brother. He disrespects you. The only way we, or yourself, will ever respect you is when you send him home devastated after a Turkey Trot.
Your 19 minute 5k goal is pathetic. You are pathetic. 19 minute 5k should be your easy tempo pace. Go all in, run on pure hate and show the world who is the better human being.
This is amazing. Thank you.