D3 - D2 program recommendations

Lor-burg wrote:

Here is no difference. Loras and Wartburg have identical ACT score ranges of 20-26. In answering the other idiots assertion the divisions are the same, that is false. Loras, Wartburg, North Central, Lacrosse, Augustana, are all typical D3 schools with average ACTs around 23-24. University of Iowa sits one hour from Augustana, Loras, and Wartburg. Its average ACT score is 26 which is very typical of Division 1 schools. Adams State has an average ACT of 20 and Chico State is 21. Those are typical of D2 and NAIA schools. There a handful of outliers in each division but 90% fall into those broad categories. D1 26-28, D3 21-25, D2 20-23.

You’re really going to call Adams—an unaccredited college—a typical D2 school? Get a clue.

If you are considering any of the American Rivers Conference schools, Nebraska Wesleyan should be strongly looked at. Their women have won every cross country championship since they joined the conference and have won most of the indoor and outdoor track championships. They also are a notch above Wartburg and Loras academically. I graduated from an IIAC (old conference name) school just before Wesleyan joined the conference. They have totally changed the dynamic within the conference. Very impressive.

Here are some more of the top 10 D2 programs and their ACT scores. Western Colorado 22, Sioux Falls 22, Saginaw Valley 22, Anchorage 22, Queens 23.

Well look at the rankings by US News and you will see that there is a direct correlation between rankings and ACT scores. Smarter kids go to better schools. Dumb kids go to worse schools. Smart kids want to be around smart kids.

You forgot Colorado School of Mines 31

I didn't forget them. As you said, they are the outlier. Most of the Power 5 schools are in the 26-28 range but Notre Dame and Stanford are 33-34. I am talking about 90% of the schools in each Division. Many D3 runners who went to these second tier liberal arts schools, don't seem to realize that nobody outside of Iowa or the D3 running scene, has ever heard of Wartburg. Yes there are a few D2 schools that are okay. But the majority of them are terrible. NAIA and D2 colleges terrible academic reputations.

I can't believe this thread, people are actually arguing about the academic value of Loras vs. Wartburg? Both are trash.

If you want to go to an elite academic school:

WashU

CMU

Emory

UChicago

Everything else is conversation.

haha what wrote:

I can't believe this thread, people are actually arguing about the academic value of Loras vs. Wartburg? Both are trash.

If you want to go to an elite academic school:

WashU

CMU

Emory

UChicago

Everything else is conversation.

Loras is the worst college I have ever heard anyone recommend as having decent academics. It doesn't. Passable, but Loras is a below-average college and should not be talked about with regard to this particular student who is looking at very good Division III colleges.

Wartburg is not a great college either, but it's better than Loras.

YOU mention some great DIII colleges, but there are others.

Williams

Amherst

Oberlin

Kenyon

MIT

Swarthmore

Wellesley

Bowdoin

Carelton

Middlebury

Pomona

Claremont McKenna

Haverford

Smith

Vassar

Colgate

Hamilton

Colby

Harvey Mudd

Wesleyan

Bates

and a few others

Loras and Wartburg aren't even close.

You are defending a college where 25% of the students have a 19 or lower ACT score. A good college does not accept students like that because they would all fail. So, if Loras has a strong program, maybe that's where the students with the 21 on the ACT go.

Looking at specific programs in one aspect of looking at a college, but the kinds of students it brings in and how it does overall in case you want to switch majors is a huge factor.

Bottom line is that someone tried to sell Loras as a good academic college. It isn't. Not even close. A very small step above a Community College.

As someone who played tennis at a solid (top 40) d1 program but ended up just playing on the team for 1 year and am SO THANKFUL it was also a really good school (or good enough, William and Mary)...what I thought was important in HS (tennis) turned out to be less important...

Go to the best academic program you can get into

either (1) one of the high end liberal arts colleges mentioned (Kenyon, Bentley, etc.) or (2) try to get into an Ivy league / quasi Ivy League program with a bad track and field program (not sure if that exists)

No. Don’t go to the best school unless the price is close to your other choices. Read the research done by a Princeton professor which found that it really doesn’t matter where you go to school. The researchers probably had the opposite agenda which makes it even more impactful.

You're either not from around Iowa or are just plain stupid if you think Wartburg is better than Loras academically.

Everyone in the Conference knows that Wartburg is at the low end of the conference in terms of academics, Loras is a ltitle above the middle and Luther is at the top

Pleasestopgivingbadadvice wrote:

You're either not from around Iowa or are just plain stupid if you think Wartburg is better than Loras academically.

Everyone in the Conference knows that Wartburg is at the low end of the conference in terms of academics, Loras is a ltitle above the middle and Luther is at the top

Luther?

So what, having cancer is better than having AIDS?

Wartburg above Loras.

Money tells wrote:

https://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/the-college-solution/2011/03/01/the-ivy-league-earnings-myth

No. Don’t go to the best school unless the price is close to your other choices. Read the research done by a Princeton professor which found that it really doesn’t matter where you go to school. The researchers probably had the opposite agenda which makes it even more impactful.

This is so far the only good advice that has been given. Everyone in here has been trying to hype up colleges solely based on ACT scores, when in reality kids from "worse" schools are still gonna get the jobs they want after graduation.

Loras is getting ripped on a lot here, so I'll use them as an example.

Greg Gumbel? Loras Grad

Vice President of Goldman Sachs? Loras Grad

Guess who oversees the neurocognitive concussion testing program for the National Football League? Loras Grad

Point isn't to hype up Loras, I'm sure Wartburg has plenty of grads like that. Point is that college is what you make of it. It's no longer years ago where the name of the school you went to mattered so much. Successful people can graduate from any college if you work for it.

Iowa snob wrote:

https://www.collegechoice.net/rankings/best-colleges-in-iowa/

Wartburg above Loras.

I'll counter that.

"Loras College is ranked third among Iowa’s 34 private not-for-profit colleges according to MONEY Magazine’s 2018 Best Colleges For Your Money list......In Iowa, Loras ranked higher at No. 273 than Drake University, 288; Luther College, 362; Mount Mercy University, 366; Wartburg College, 369; Central College, 394; Clarke University, 431; Simpson College, 507; Northwestern College, 514; Coe College, 564; Saint Ambrose University, 519; Grand View University, 607; Cornell College, 619; and Upper Iowa University, 702."

FactsWar wrote:

Iowa snob wrote:

https://www.collegechoice.net/rankings/best-colleges-in-iowa/

Wartburg above Loras.

I'll counter that.

"Loras College is ranked third among Iowa’s 34 private not-for-profit colleges according to MONEY Magazine’s 2018 Best Colleges For Your Money list......In Iowa, Loras ranked higher at No. 273 than Drake University, 288; Luther College, 362; Mount Mercy University, 366; Wartburg College, 369; Central College, 394; Clarke University, 431; Simpson College, 507; Northwestern College, 514; Coe College, 564; Saint Ambrose University, 519; Grand View University, 607; Cornell College, 619; and Upper Iowa University, 702."

So, your counter is that Loras is ranked higher than a bunch of sucky colleges in one list?

Both of them suck really. The main dig on Loras here is that someone decided to say it was good academically. That is bad enough on its own, but this person had the audacity to say that after colleges like WashU were mentioned. It doesn't even come close to measuring up to that and is a below average college.

US News and World Report puts Loras as 13th Regionally, which if you know their system, you realize the worst colleges are considered "regional" ones by them. They are behind such academic giants as Cottey College, Goshen College, and Milikin University.

Sweet.

runnerchef wrote:

As someone who played tennis at a solid (top 40) d1 program but ended up just playing on the team for 1 year and am SO THANKFUL it was also a really good school (or good enough, William and Mary)...what I thought was important in HS (tennis) turned out to be less important...

Go to the best academic program you can get into

either (1) one of the high end liberal arts colleges mentioned (Kenyon, Bentley, etc.) or (2) try to get into an Ivy league / quasi Ivy League program with a bad track and field program (not sure if that exists)

William and Mary is a great college. One of the best Public colleges in the country. Patton Oswalt graduated from there.

I can't believe this thread! This is letsrun...a running forum. Who gives a rip about going to class? Wartburg men finished 5th in XC at nats this year with 5 underclassmen. I like it. Gimme some of that. Heck, I'd recommend Phoenix University Online if they were killing it on the running side. Stop being choads and focus on what's really important.