O jeez I'm starting to question how I should approach the race now... I was definitely in the mindset of banking time and going by constant effort which would suggest faster splits in the first half.
But that quad busting thing has got me a bit scared. Hmmmmm
jot quill wrote:
O jeez I'm starting to question how I should approach the race now... I was definitely in the mindset of banking time and going by constant effort which would suggest faster splits in the first half.
But that quad busting thing has got me a bit scared. Hmmmmm
No sh!t, right?
(Yoda Voice)The taper madness is strong in this one.
Stone! Really appreciate that generous post! I hope our paths manage to cross at some point (just not necessarily as you and Mrs Stone dust me at mile 25).
I did the 3 x 1600 @ "T" (okay, a little faster) with 400m (2') rest today. Straight outta 2Q.
If this was Chicago on a good day and not Boston, I think I could give 2:30 a scare. Running 10 at 5:34 (or 5:36 if it was short) on Sunday just wasn't that hard, and I really think I could've held 15-20 at that pace.
As it stands, I'm thinking 2:32 is a realistic goal, unless the wind is really bad. Planning to go no faster than 5:45 at any point in the first half and going to try to hit 1:16 at the half.
Gordon Tremeshko wrote:
Coach Jeff ROC wrote:
I did contemplate using my experience as a possible classic "Did I ruin my taper/race" thread, but I knew I wouldn't have time to diligently troll it.
If you shell out the big bucks for in-flight wifi won't you have like 24 hours of free time?
I already shelled out $1.99 for a eye mask. Zzzzzzzzz. I don’t need no stinkin’ Wi-Fi.
RRTT boots on the ground in Boston now.
And I hope the forecast shifts do for yall. Yuki is probably loving the wind forecast.
I guess I over simplified what McMillan said. What you wrote is pretty much in line with what would be acceptable. A few seconds faster than goal pace would be fine. And like you wrote it really is not banking time. Just don't go out 30sec faster than your goal pace even though it might feel easy. Maybe even as much as 10 sec faster than goal pace might be acceptable
I guess I have already learned my lesson about blasting down hills in a marathon. I did that when I ran Gettysburg in 2016. After a large downhill at mile 7 or 8 and I end up with blister on my forefoot near my big toe. There was a second big down hill around mile 11 and by mile 15 I had ITBS with plenty of pain at my knee and hip. Never had any such problem before or since. It was my first marathon. Now I know better.
Coach Jeff - You should fear no hills. I've seen the elevation profile for some of your runs.
Still sick. Getting nervous, but trying to remain calm. No running today. At home resting and throwing everthing I have at this...ODing on Vitamin C, elderberry, chicken soup, you name it.
All the best to everyone...
Hope you feel better soon. We're still several days out, so there is good chance you will recover from the illness by then.
Still Improving wrote:
Coach Jeff - You should fear no hills. I've seen the elevation profile for some of your runs.
I agree with this. I've only run Boston twice -- at age 23 and age 40, but I really don't recall the hills as particularly significant. Neither the ascents nor descents are steep. You'll notice Heartbreak Hill, but it just adds some nice variety.
As far as initial pace, my experience in 2000 was that the crowds kept the pace quite slow for at least the first mile. Best to just stay relaxed and not worry too much until things open up and you can settle into your pace.
I see runners darting through gaps, then slowing in congestion, then darting again. Crazy. Way too stressful.
I did make one blunder in 2000. I had a jug of watered-down Gatorade with me during the long wait before the race. With all that time, I over-hydrated and had to stop along the road a few times during the early miles. With no particular time goal, it didn't really matter, but still rather inconvenient.
outsiderunner wrote:
Still sick. Getting nervous, but trying to remain calm. No running today. At home resting and throwing everthing I have at this...ODing on Vitamin C, elderberry, chicken soup, you name it.
You're doing all the right things. You're super fit, and on Monday you'll be ready to roll! You're gonna really enjoy the race. Meanwhile, enjoy a little R&R.
Thank you very much, Allen. Do you think I was right to take another day off (today)?
Smoove wrote:
It goes to what we talk about on this thread a lot - running with a consistent effort rather than a consistent time. If you are properly prepared for hills, running 6:10 pace for some downhill miles when your goal time works out to 6:15 pace isn't at all unreasonable, especially since you know that a consistent effort will turn that into 6:30 pace from miles 18-21.
Good point Smoove but I don't want a run by effort approach to be misleading. It doesn't mean that you have to run consistently the same effort from start to finish. I think at Boston you have to purposefully hold back (without braking on the downhills) and run steady until you pass the fire station. Then it's time to go to work.
outsiderunner wrote:
Do you think I was right to take another day off (today)?
Yeah. Your fitness is there. Best to avoid stresses and let your immune system do its job. And if you're experience is anything like mine, if you're still not feeling great this weekend, or even Monday morning, once you start running, everything will click perfectly! Rain or shine, calm or breezy!
too hot 3 wrote:
I think at Boston you have to purposefully hold back (without braking on the downhills) and run steady until you pass the fire station. Then it's time to go to work.
I agree, although I think this is pretty much true of all marathons - run under control and steady well into the second half of the race.
I think that most people tend to understand generic concept applies to Boston as well, but I think they struggle with the practical application of that generic concept, so I was using the hypothetical 2:44 marathoner as a way of providing practical advice that folks might be able to relate to a little easier.
In short, I think people look at the course profile and say "what does it mean to run in control on a course with such disparate elevation?"
My guess is that if you were to provide more specific guidance, it might sound like the guidance that Stone's friend gave.
OR - Good to take the day off. As I told JQ a few weeks ago, my best college race was after taking 3 days off for stomach flu (then 3-4 miles the day before racing).
Too hot - Where about is the fire station? Now I’ll be looking for it as a reference point.
————————————
The probable ugly weather is making me giddy. I’ve clearly lost my mind.
Sub6: (and others running Boston), the fire station:
MILE 17: TURNING ONTO COMMONWEALTH AVENUE AND GETTING READY FOR HEARTBREAK
“There’s not many turns on the course so it’s a significant thought. You make that right on Commonwealth Ave and pass the fire station. It’s an inspirational point. They always have a huge crowd there. This is what people are preparing for mentally. Now you have to switch gears and tell your body to use different muscles. It’s tough to flip over to uphill after you’ve been doing so much downhill running. The fans are really intense. It’s a major marker and it’s one of my favorite spots on the course.
https://www.si.com/edge/2016/04/15/boston-marathon-course-guide-tips-from-shalane-flanagan
Nowhere near this Boston talk, but I just finished a 8x400m with 70'' jogging rest @ somewhat 84'' pace. It did hurt a bit. After all, 400s are made to hurt us... But I'm really pleased with the feelings I had. Started the first one kinda downhill (78''), plus 4 @ 85 and 3 at 82''.
The fitness ran away from me the 3 weeks I was out injured...but it ran too slow and I just caught it again hehe.
To all the Boston runners: Respect the taper, respect your body. Monday will be showtime and I will be taking some time in the afternoon to follow you all!
Coach Jeff: Have a nice flight. Oh, and hammer that sub 3.
Thanks, Sub 6:00, for the uplfting comment.
Just downed my second bowl of chicken soup in the last three hours. The hot soup felt good going down, as the sickness is centered on my chest. Lots of couch sitting and TV watching.
This just the world's way of forcing you to taper :). You'll no doubt come out of this strong and fresh as hell and you'll crush it!
The rest of us still have to be worried about getting sick right before ;)
I am on the sick bus too - dealing with significant sore throat :(