Just curious.... Need some reference on how fast I should run my easy days.
Just curious.... Need some reference on how fast I should run my easy days.
Yes, many. Not the 2:05 guys but many 2:12-2:20 guys.
This is a link to the 2016 trials on Strava:
https://www.strava.com/running-races/us-olympic-marathon-team-trials-2016
Also, most of the top European/US ultra guys are on Strava. Max King, Kilian, Stian Angermund Vik, Jonas Buud, Geoff Burns...
Kyle Merber, Jim Walmsley, Reid Coolsaet, Sage Canaday, Stephen Scullion, etc
Yuoe wrote:
Yes, many. Not the 2:05 guys but many 2:12-2:20 guys.
This is a link to the 2016 trials on Strava:
https://www.strava.com/running-races/us-olympic-marathon-team-trials-2016Also, most of the top European/US ultra guys are on Strava. Max King, Kilian, Stian Angermund Vik, Jonas Buud, Geoff Burns...
How come if most of them are running close to 5 flat pace for a marathon, they run like 7min pace on a majority of their runs? That seems wayyy to easy
OlympicHopefull wrote:
Yuoe wrote:
Yes, many. Not the 2:05 guys but many 2:12-2:20 guys.
This is a link to the 2016 trials on Strava:
https://www.strava.com/running-races/us-olympic-marathon-team-trials-2016Also, most of the top European/US ultra guys are on Strava. Max King, Kilian, Stian Angermund Vik, Jonas Buud, Geoff Burns...
How come if most of them are running close to 5 flat pace for a marathon, they run like 7min pace on a majority of their runs? That seems wayyy to easy
Because the train for fitness, not ego
K. Schweizer just recently closed off her Strava *sad face*
Most of their members are fairly complete on Strava.
I think 4-5 qualifiers with A standard for trials despite training in Minnesota winters.
I follow a bunch of pros and also some top collegians.
They really do run a ton of miles above 7 min pace.
But note: they run a TON of miles. Above 90mpw. And many of them don't seem to run regular "hard" gut busting workouts. It's been a real eye opener.
At my college, we did 50-60mpw, with 3 hard workouts per week, and WAY too fast on the easy days, always under 7, often 6 or below.
No wonder we were always fried and under performed.
Dammit I wish the internet existed back then so we didn't train like dopes.
The lesson: get the volume up to a very high level that you can maintain consistently without getting injured. If that's 8 min miles, so be it. It's the week after week of >90 mpw that matters. Sprinkle in consistent strides and speed so you remember how to run fast, but don't overdo the hard track stuff. That's it!
OlympicHopefull wrote:
Just curious.... Need some reference on how fast I should run my easy days.
Some days they'll go sub 6 minute pace, other days they'll go slower than a 8 minute pace. It all depends on how they are feeling and what feels easy that day.
rojo wrote:
Alan's take wrote:
He really seems to stress that runners tend to run too slow on their easy days. He gives the exampe of how his wife improved significantly when she forcibly raised her easy pace from 7:30s to 6:30s. I find that it's better to let your body dictate.Thoughts?
When I moved to flagstaff in early 2000 - just months before the birth of LetsRun.com to train with Weldon for the 2000 Trials, I couldn't believe how slow he was running.
I had just run a marathon (well I guess he had as well as he paced me for the whole thing) but when I started back up, I was like "this pace is a joke. He's trying to make the Olympics. I can't even make the Trials and he's running this slow"
I called up John Kellogg and said, "Do you want to me secretely push the pace on our easy days like at least 15 seconds a mile, he won't know I'm doing it?"
John said, "We'll worry about the easy day pace last. It's the least important thing."
We never did increase it. That's the he went from 29:49 in 10k to
28:27.
In college he ran his easy days at 6:30 pace and couldn't break 30. As a pro, he ran way more, lived at altitude and ran way slower (definitely over 7) and nearly broke 28:00.
Now. Saying that it's important to realize he was RUNNING A LOT.
Shayne Culpepper was really a 1500-3k runner who moved up to the 5k. I doubt most female runners in that category are running much.
It's the principal that applies.
You want to generally be adding a stimulus each year. For most people, it's mileage. When you are in HS and in college, it's generally easy to add 10 mpw each year. 30 as a frosh, 40 as soph, etc. Only as a pro or if you are a mid-d guy/gal are you often maxed out on that front.
If you aren't running very much, you should run it faster. When I was at Cornell and some freshmen would say to me, "Why don't we run 615 pace on our easy days. That's what I did in HS." I'd reply. "You were running only 40 mpwl. You'd better run it fast."
So there you have it. If you are running a lot or increasing your mileage, i wouldn't worry about it. You likely won't be able to handle a faster pace. If you aren't running a lot or are more of a 5k person - maybe it makes morse sense (i hated the intenstiy of the 5k - such a grind - maybe grinding out easy days is equivalent?).
That being said, when Nick WIllis ran with my Cornell boys one day he said to me as we were jogging at like 7:30 pace, "Do you guys always run this pace." I thought he was complaining it was so slow. I was about to start making some excuse about how we only had one meet left, etc as it was very slow that day and late in the season but before he could he added, "Thank goodness. Finally a team I can run with. I can't ever run with the Michigan guys - they just go way too fast (this was when he was a pro)."
I replied, "Don't they know you are an Olymipan? Why wouldn't they jsut slow down and run your pace?" He just sort of smiled.
So it depends on a lot of factors. But I wouldn't change what you are doing if you are a long distance male based on what some mid-d female did.
While the first person I ever coached to USAs was a woman, I haven't coached a lot of them. I do think they can run faster and probably should as scientifically according to John Kellogg they dont' benefit from high mileage as much as a man.
dont base how fast/slow you should do your easy days based on what pro's do on strava. You do you. or, do what your coach tells you to do.
Many of the Aussies are on Strava:
Jordy Williamsz
Brett Robinson
Luke Mathews
Sam McEntee
Jack Rayner
David McNeil
Ben St. Lawrence
The hosts of the inside running pod
Tinman Elite Guys posted in the fall but have stopped. You can still look back at their training:
Kyle Medina
Reed Fischer
Jeff Thies
Joey Barriuetta
Jordan Gusman
Brogan Austin
Excellent comment!
BlackSwanGroup262 wrote:
Excellent comment!
Disagree. Bad comment. Many people run way too fast on their easy days and underachieve. Many coaches are terrible. He may have no clue what he's doing. His coach may have no clue.
The fact that elite athletes train much slower than many NCAA programs, including my crappy college team, wejos "why I sucked in college" etc. demonstrate this repeatedly.
Seeing with your own eyes that top athletes "train and don't strain" is incredibly valuable.
If he meant "listen to your body" that's a good comment.
Also, reading "you do you" is a sure-fire way to know you're dealing with a mental midget.
OP: the info is all over the internet. You have no excuse. Read wejo. Ingebrigsten. Tinman. Lydiard.
Do a big volume at a pace you can achieve consistently without breakdown. Error on the side of slower if unsure.
That is very cool. What about the women's olympic team trials? Anybody have a link?
Not sure this is a good way to establish your easy pace, but Will Leer is a great follow.
dont do this wrote:
dont base how fast/slow you should do your easy days based on what pro's do on strava. You do you. or, do what your coach tells you to do.
Really??!! There are some really good high school coaches, but a lot of bad ones that don't know what they are doing. It upsets me when kids come on here, looking for good advice and they are told to stop trying to educate themselves and just listen to their coach. How about give some solid advice, if you are knowledgable.
Not on strava, but this is how Henry Rono trained:
Nobby wrote:
Tom:
Yes, Coach sent me a copy. I have not read it yet but can't wait to sit down and spend some time "studying" it. I hope people, especially young coaches and runners, don't shy away from it just because coach Squires don't talk some scientific terms like LT or AT or whatever. His system is very straight forward and traditional...and has been proven to work!
On a separate note, I found something interesting: I found Henry Rono’s (almost) day-to-day training leading up to his 13:12 5000m performance in 1981.
June 30: 5000m 13:57
July 7: 5000m 15:48 (last place)
July 9: 5000m 14:15 (en route of 10000m drop-out)
July 11: 5000m 13:40
July 16: 1500m 3:50
July 18: 5x1000m (2:49, 2:40, 2:48, 2:47, 2:40)
July 19: 12x400m (68~65)
July 20: 24x200m (31.2~28.8)
July 21: 4x400m (55~59)
July 22: 6x800m (2:08~2:05)
July 23: 12x400m (63.2~61.5 w/ the last one 58.5)
July 24: 5x1000m (2:44, 2:42, 2:43, 2:41, 2:40)
July 25: No training because of rain
July 26: 17x400m (65~63 w/ the last one in 58)
July 27: 24x400m (last one in 57.7)
July 29: 3000m 2nd in 7:55
July 31: 2 mile 8th in 8:44
Aug 3: 3000m 1st in 7:58
Aug 8: 5000m 5th in 13:26
Aug 11: 3000m 1st in 7:50
Aug 19: 5000m 4th 13:27
Aug 21: 3000m 5th in 7:51
Aug 23: 5000m 2nd in 13:23
Aug 26: 5000m 1st in 13:12
The point is, however, what Rono did BEFORE he got to the point where he piled up this type of training. Rono said, “We run twice a day; 15km in the morning, 15km in the evening. We continue this for 4 months… We take anywhere from 1:15 to 1:30 to run these 15km. This has to be continued everyday for 4 months.” Then after 4 months of this type of training, he would “include interval training on Tuesday and Thursday (with a 15km run in the morning). These are usually 12x400m with 2 minutes recovery jog.” The type of stressful training is only possible AFTER developing solid aerobic base with “30km everyday for 4 months” even for someone super-human as Henry Rono.
Lasse Viren, most of his mileage was at a 8-9 minute pace too. If you want to run fast as a distance runner, you should do a lot of volume at a easy pace. Once you do a lot of volume at a easy pace for a few months, you than reduce volume and increase intensity to peak for track(look at Henry Rono schedule above for example). Ryan Hall was just on the Lance Armstrong podcast, and when talking about his training when he was at the elite level he said his easy mileage was slow. Same way with Craig Mottram, his easy mileage was so slow that the women would pass him on his easy days. You build up your fitness and strengthen your tendons and muscles through large amounts of easy aerobic running. Than for track you reduce volume and increase intensity.
Check out Tony Migliozzi. He just ran a 2:16:45 and broke the course record at the Sprouts-Mesa Phoenix Marathon this past weekend. He's very thorough with his training on Strava. He lives in my small city and it's been exciting to watch his progress. Plus, he was a year ahead of me in high school and often destroyed me in cross country races.
OlympicHopefull wrote:
Just curious.... Need some reference on how fast I should run my easy days.
Cam Levine and Desiree Davila, though they only post some of their workouts.
Looks like they ran down a mountain based on Strava....
RIP: D3 All-American Frank Csorba - who ran 13:56 in March - dead
Great interview with Steve Cram - says Jakob has no chance of WRs this year
RENATO can you talk about the preparation of Emile Cairess 2:06
Hats off to my dad. He just ran a 1:42 Half Marathon and turns 75 in 2 months!
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