Road Racing and Training Thread- Week Ending 2/3/19

It's Thursday morning here and still at the in-laws, but most everything has wound down now... The cousins are all gone... The holiday food is all eaten... Just hoping I can get through the AM without my father-in-law slapping a beer (or worse) down in front of me. After a "successful" Q2 yesterday, I feel worthy of starting the thread...

TDR: The down time is absolutely part of the process. It's like skipping meals before an all-you-can-eat buffet!

DB: Congrats on the PR. When you can do that during a bad week, you know your fitness has really leveled-up.

jewbacca: Your easy running with short hammy tests is so smart. That's the way we should all come back from injury. Smart.

pewow: Nice double! Wait wait... triple!

Gordon: Hope you're feeling better. Hell, by the time I get this posted, scientists may have cured the common cold...

gofamianho: One "boom" and a lot of zoom. Good week!

puddles: 100? That ain't no puddle. It's a veritable pond!

Stone: So much good work in a busy busy week. Congrats.

Urban Diesel: Congrats on the volume. That volume, combined with shorter races sounds like a recipe for badassery.

sub 6:00: Another 100 on page 1. The thread is legit. Very cool eagle sighting, but, of course, since they didn't make it back to the Super Bowl (unlike my "home" team), they had nothing better to do. ;)

aPyro: Nice to see you. This is the time in a cycle when long runs should be feeling comfortable. A good sign!

LancRunner: Your ramp-up plan sounds good.

OR: I'll be browsing your thread next. Glad to see you are still moving ahead on all cylinders.

jot quill: Congrats on the PR. I also have a history of some achilles/shin issues though it's way under control now. I tend to feel something only in relatively colder weather. I wonder if it's a seasonal thing for cold-weather runners?

cocoon: Sub-40!!!!!!!!! Dang, I wish I had seen this sooner!!! Congrats on the breakthrough. I hear you on that 10k concentration issue (I have problems in the middle of even a 5k!). That last mile split is no joke! It's been a trying few weeks for me, and this is a nice piece of motivation! So cool and so happy for you!

More later.

I've missed you guys.

Sub-6:00 - Maybe a happy medium is this. Run 3-4 miles easy. Do 6-8 x :30 fast hills (like mile pace), with very easy jog down recoveries. Run easy for another couple miles. Do another set of 6-8 x :30 fast hills. Add on 3-4 miles afterward. Economy work, recruitment of fast twitch fibers at different segments of the run, development of power, and medium run all wrapped into one utility-type run. Good bang for your buck while still leaving you ready for the quality weekend long run.

Puto Miudo: It is crazy how fast the Keisei U team finished the 20K Hakone qualifier race especially with of them starting as true running newbies. 10:16/10 = 1:01:36 average for 20K which is equivalent to 1:05:11 for half marathon. The average time of the team would have beaten all 8200+ runners in the Surf City half marathon race (including an OTQ guy with 2:18 PR) except for the two Japanese Nike pro runners (one of which is Osako the Japanese marathon NR holder). That saying about sports not necessarily being beautiful is true... e.g. the 2018 Boston Marathon.

Outsiderunner: Very Impressive 10x800 Workout on the roads. Almost like a Yasso 800’s Workout except you took shorter recoveries(for classic Yasso’s you are supposed to jog for the same time as your 800 intervals). My last 10x800 workout ranged from 2:24 to 2:38 but I jogged 400 recoveries around 1:45-1:50. I did these on a track which is a faster surface than roads.

Bruin - Thanks very much. The route I use is mostly a somewhat twisty loop here in the neighborhood...flat-ish, but some mild ups and downs here and there, the most significant one being a .27 of a mile incline that sits mostly on a curve. So, some turns, and today there was a bit of wind (nothing staggering, but I felt it). I actually prefer doing this type of thing on the roads, and I also like the turns, as they break things up and keep me more focused mentally. Tracks can throw me off. On the roads, I cannot see the finish, but I know these raods well and can estimate when a half mile will be up, envisioning the scenery there, and thus I can coax myself into holding pace until this intersection, that corner, or some driveway or utility pole, when my watch will beep at the end of the interval. I can also peek at my watch and get my current status (accumulated pace) for the rep. The track comes across as being very “fixed” and long, and hence tends to psych me out. Likewise, in a race I tend to like turns, as they break things up and keep me interested. They keep my mind engaged and moving forward.

How are you feeeling about Tokyo?

SC - Intriguing and sounds like fun. If everything feels all right when I get out of bed tomorrow, that’s what I’ll do.

Should be a good time. Endymion starts in City Park -- you could run beforehand and follow the parade all the way to the Dome if you wanted. If you'd like a running buddy at any point, shoot me an email.

Excellent advice and a good reminder to start planning for it... which I haven't yet. I have friends in St. Paul, but that's probably a little too far to drive on race morning.

IT band. I've never had it in the hip before, but that's for sure what's going on. I have pain that radiates from where the ITB connects to the pelvis down to the hip joint, and earlier this week I could feel it tugging down on my knee. Trippy feeling that scared me a bit. I've had ITB syndrome in my knees, and it messed me up. My pelvis hurts to the touch, and I had some fears about a stress fracture, but at this point I don't think that's likely. I decided I needed to get more serious about the rehab and found some good stuff online that's helped. It's improved a bunch just in the last few days.

In case anyone else might find this useful, these are the 2 videos that have been most helpful:

Nice easy run this morning but the HRM was dead again after intermittent life yesterday. Came home (still at the in-laws), did the battery flip trick to wake it up. Hair dryer on low to the electronics for 5 minutes. Now it's working as good as new.

RunninReed: Gravel roads outside of Pullman? Are you on the Palouse?

BHViking: Sorry I kinda disappeared mid-discussion last week. Good week overall for you, despite the Ronald McTrouble.

JamesCPP: Another strong week. Almost everything feels better when it's not August.

SI: Here he comes...

darkwave: Nice race, even with the caveats. It's good to hear that you had no breathing problems. It may sound silly, but sometimes when a run is going poorly, incidents like the breathing trouble you related last week come to mind and I am forced to admit that my bad day ain't that bad.

JtheA: Glad you found a PF fix! And I know how you feel on that leaderboard. Seems I'm a bit stuck myself...

Pappy: You ain't alone in the bad week blues. You know the drill... it's not how many times you fall, but how many times...

RunGuy: Hope you get that PF back under control... I was just about to suggest the JamestheAmateur approach but then I see the next post...

Bruin: Great race! and 頑張てfor 東京.

I'm catching back up here...

Jewbacca - I'll let you know closer to the trip as plans shape up. What I like to do before a trip like this is to run something a little too hard the morning before I fly out, so if I don't have time to do more than say 60 minutes recovery each day, I can at least use the time to absorb the big workout. Got a group of friends from college going, staying with one of the group's parents in Lakeview. Not the first time we've done this, but it's been since 2013 since I've gone. Always been a positive experience.

Stone Cutter - That workout hit the spot this morning. Only had 75 minutes to run, so I trimmed some of the easy stuff, but still got in a solid 2 x 8 x 30s. (3 for the warmup, about 1.5 between sets, and 2 cool down.)

jewbacca wrote:

going faster miles an hour wrote:

JB: Useful week under the circumstances. What’s your sense of what’s going on with the hip?

IT band. I've never had it in the hip before, but that's for sure what's going on. I have pain that radiates from where the ITB connects to the pelvis down to the hip joint, and earlier this week I could feel it tugging down on my knee. Trippy feeling that scared me a bit. I've had ITB syndrome in my knees, and it messed me up. My pelvis hurts to the touch, and I had some fears about a stress fracture, but at this point I don't think that's likely. I decided I needed to get more serious about the rehab and found some good stuff online that's helped. It's improved a bunch just in the last few days.

IT band stuff is annoying for sure. Good to hear that it's getting better for you. In my experience, it's easier to deal with when it turns up in the hip compared with when you get it down in the knee, so hopefully that will be true for you. And I have found that ITB issues in the hip tend to respond fairly well to targeted stretching, though I prefer variations on the old twist-yourself-into-a-pretzel number myself. (This is speaking as someone who has essentially stopped stretching on a routine basis.)

Thanks to everyone of you for the Congratulations on the 10K.

When I joined this thread in mid-October, I had just run 1:34 half as part of a comeback. In the 3 months after joining, I have run within 6 second of my marathon PR and a 10K PR. Consistency and workouts that are going towards a long-term goal are couple of important things that I have learnt from this thread.

TDR - A break sounds great. I tend to play other sports that I am decent at during these breaks (soccer, badminton, etc.). Makes me more rejuvenated than just sitting at home after work.

DB - Congrats man. Sucks when the course if long. You PR'ed even with the less running over the last couple of weeks, which means that you are fitter than the past.

JB - I had the right hip pain after CIM. The lunge matrix and SAM Workouts from Jay Johnson have been my friend, based on the suggestion from this thread.

Pewow - I will count Sunday as a double :).

GFMAH - Solid week. Maybe hire the mysterious wire-loop as your chiropractor. J/K J/K.

GT - Sorry that the Bay Area did not treat you well. Unfortunate. Hope you are feeling better.

Puddles - 100 miles in singles is big time mileage. This equates to about 12 - 13 hours of running for you?

Stone - Broken toe sounds bad. Sounds like we were born about a year apart. Happy belated birthday.

Urban Diesel - Amazing week.

Sub 6 - Great week. Bald eagles are rare in California maybe. I haven't seen one i n any of my runs.

LancRunner - All the best for the 5K focussed training.

OR - You are on your waay to crushing Boston :).

jotquill - Glad your achilles scare wasn't too major. Great 4 mile race!

RunninReed - All the best for your half goal.

BHViking - I have not had these kind of accident happen yet. The worst that has happened to me was when I nearly passed out dehydrated after running 120 minutes on a hot day. Blessed is the biker who gave me his water bottle and told me not to worry about it. The 3 parks that I intended to get water from were closed due to government shutdown with cops turning me away.

Still Improving - Solid week.

Darkwave - Well rounded week. And congrats on the PR.

Statfanatic - Solid week inspite of schedule challenges.

JtA - Great that you were able to get out of your PF injury.

RGM - Maybe try kinesio taping your PF. That's how I got it resolved. And lots of calf-stretching.

Bruin - Way to run a fast time in that weather. I would not do the long run on the track. Some BURN folks that I follow on Strava tend to do it for the mid-week tempo. Since the race is on the road, I tend to do the workouts on the road.

More comments later..Have to get back to work now.

Sub 6:00 wrote:

Stone Cutter - That workout hit the spot this morning. Only had 75 minutes to run, so I trimmed some of the easy stuff, but still got in a solid 2 x 8 x 30s. (3 for the warmup, about 1.5 between sets, and 2 cool down.)

Nice job. Glad my recommendation helped.

Cocoon - Belated congrats on the sub-40:00 10k. That’s a really nice barrier to take down.

@Sub 6:00: thanks for the encouragement about "running to the barn"! Will experiment a bit more with it although yeah I tend to do my hard days on Tu Th so one day of easy is a little risky there.

@Coach Jeff ROC: Thank you! Hmmmm now that I think of it... last year when I had issues it was during the winter as well *scratches chin*

@cocoon: Thanks!! Congrats on the 10K!

I guess this doesn't mean toooo much since I've only ever raced a 10K twice and both have been absolute disasters, but this is my "9th" (3 down weeks) week of jumping up to 100+mpw and according to Strava I just ran a 10K PR in the middle of an 8 mile MP run haha.

On track to have one of my best training weeks, feeling the strongest ever! Trying to decide if I want to inject quality miles into my LR Saturday or just leave it as pure easy, long miles. I'll probably have 80+ miles with two killer workouts going into Saturday so leaning toward easy, with maybe a progression at the end if I feel like it. Boston is still more than 2 months out so I probably don't need to be stressing to much about monster long runs...

So, what do people think of Adaptive Motion Training machines versus elliptical machines?

My gym has a bunch of Cybex Arc Trainers. Looks like about the same thing? I don't see much difference compared to the elliptical. I can set it so the range of motion and resistance is similar. Whenever I talk about doing elliptical workouts, I'm really on the arc trainer.

Male

age - 17

PRs

800m 2:08.55

1600m 5:00.00

3200m 11:04

5k 17:27

Half Marathon 1:27:05 (on the road timed alone)

Have been way behind on keeping up with the thread, but seems like there is a lot of hammering happening. Keep it up.

Sub 6 and Stone- I like that :30 hills session. Stone, wow man I am impressed that you can hit 5k pace on the longer hill reps. I guess it depends on the climb.

Outside Runner- great to see this collaboration unfolding with some legendary training.

Darkwave- I forgot about Broad St that weekend. Sounds like a good plan with the 5k as a backup in case of warm conditions.

Working Harder- if you’re out there man, thinking about you and hope you are healthy and hammering away with the training!

Diet Bacon- congratulations on the 10k. I’m impressed. Looking good for Rotterdam.

Puddles- seriously throwing down. 100 in singles is no joke. Sounds more like a 2:25 situation to me.

LancRunner- I love following the sub 17 quests.

Sub 6 and Urban Diesel- you guys both had legendary weeks too. Glad I’m not racing either of you anytime soon!

Cocoon- hammering. Congrats. That’s a big barrier.

Stat- I like the way you incorporate the speed play into base phase. Looking forward to you throwing down this spring.

RunninReed and APyro- looking forward to following your builds.

jewbacca wrote:

darkwave wrote:

jewbacca - good news on the hammy; thinking good thoughts about the hip. BTW, the reservations for the UMD dorms just opened up this week. Dunno where you were planning on staying, but I highly recommend those.

Excellent advice and a good reminder to start planning for it... which I haven't yet. I have friends in St. Paul, but that's probably a little too far to drive on race morning.

Err, yeah. That's a long drive from MSP to Duluth. I always fly into MSP on Thursday so I don't have to do that drive the day before the race.

Arc-trainers: I'm a big fan of them, and have used them for cross-training in the past - they work really well for tempos and marathon pace work - just ignore the "distance" on them and go by time and heart rate. I find that they allow a running-like stride, while ellipticals don't.

jot quill - you are running really well right now, and that's awesome, but also a risk. I've seen this happen a lot - people start running well fairly early in their cycle, and get excited and a bit greedy. Then they end up injured or past their peak at their goal race (which is Boston for you, right?). Just a bit of warning - if you're debating whether to push things or stay patient this weekend, I'd strongly advocate for the latter.