Sorry to burst your bubble Katelyn Tuohy fans, but Mary Cain's 9:38.68 full 2 mile is superior to Tuohy's 9:01.81 3000

Why is this a post? No kidding. We all have access to conversion calculators, Rojo. We don’t need to text JK to figure this out.

GBohannon wrote:

Why is this a post? No kidding. We all have access to conversion calculators, Rojo. We don’t need to text JK to figure this out.

1) The goal of the post is the samegoal of all of letsrun.com - to make it easy to be informed about elite running. Yes, I guess everyone could surf the Internet for 4-5 hours a day to find the links on the homepage and I bet they could convert a 3000 if they really wanted to but.

2) I doubt most people even know Cain ran a 9:38.68 2 mile

3) I bet most people don't know how to convert the two or take the time to do it.

Again, the goal is to keep you informed, help you be smart about running and most importantly save you time.

Hopefully KT has a better pro career and flames out later in the life than MC.

"And in terms of the greatest American women’s high school distance performance at any distance, that clearly is Mary Cain’s 4:04.62 for 1500 that she ran later that summer at age 17. That equates to about an 8:48.91 for 3000."

But Efraimson did run a faster 1500 at Pre, no?

kmaclam wrote:

"And in terms of the greatest American women’s high school distance performance at any distance, that clearly is Mary Cain’s 4:04.62 for 1500 that she ran later that summer at age 17. That equates to about an 8:48.91 for 3000."

But Efraimson did run a faster 1500 at Pre, no?

And is the H.S. record? Or not?

kmaclam wrote:

"And in terms of the greatest American women’s high school distance performance at any distance, that clearly is Mary Cain’s 4:04.62 for 1500 that she ran later that summer at age 17. That equates to about an 8:48.91 for 3000."

But Efraimson did run a faster 1500 at Pre, no?

Correct. So I stand corrected. Efraimson ran 4:03.39 at Pre in 2015. That equates to something like 8:46.25.

And we here at LetsRun don't care whether a HSer is pro or not. If they are still in HS, we count it as HS.

rojo wrote:

GBohannon wrote:

Why is this a post? No kidding. We all have access to conversion calculators, Rojo. We don’t need to text JK to figure this out.

1) The goal of the post is the samegoal of all of letsrun.com - to make it easy to be informed about elite running. Yes, I guess everyone could surf the Internet for 4-5 hours a day to find the links on the homepage and I bet they could convert a 3000 if they really wanted to but.

2) I doubt most people even know Cain ran a 9:38.68 2 mile

3) I bet most people don't know how to convert the two or take the time to do it.

Again, the goal is to keep you informed, help you be smart about running and most importantly save you time.

You doubt that most LRCers know Cain’s PRs? You would bet that most LRCers don’t know conversions or where to find them? I guess I disagree, but could be wrong.

I love you, Wejo, and LRC with all my heart. Maybe some here aren’t quite as diehard as me, but I don’t think they’re clueless either.

rojo wrote:

kmaclam wrote:

"And in terms of the greatest American women’s high school distance performance at any distance, that clearly is Mary Cain’s 4:04.62 for 1500 that she ran later that summer at age 17. That equates to about an 8:48.91 for 3000."

But Efraimson did run a faster 1500 at Pre, no?

Correct. So I stand corrected. Efraimson ran 4:03.39 at Pre in 2015. That equates to something like 8:46.25.

And we here at LetsRun don't care whether a HSer is pro or not. If they are still in HS, we count it as HS.

Fully agree regarding Efraimson’s time counting and that, time wise, it’s the best HS distance performance ever. Cain’s performance navigating the rounds at the US Championships and then the WCs was better, but not faster.

Tuohy's 15:37 5k last year was more impressive

That one month of age obviously made *all* the difference....

Mary's 9:38 was her third race of the season, when she was being coached by Alberto. Let's give Tuohy a little room to breather here. I for one am excited to see her shatter 15:30 running with the pros.

Why would this burst the bubble of KT fans? She broke the 3000m record, which no one was saying is superior to the 2 mile record (I'm actually shocked they didn't have splits at 3000m during that 2 mile).

She's very fit, ran a PR, and is showing a bit of a more mature racing style her past couple races (much closer to even splits). Still very excited for her future

Rojo, I understand your loyalty to JK and all, but he's not all that. All conversions are subjective in nature. Wildly subjective, in fact. They are made up bullshit. JK's "calculation" violates significant decimal rules of math and science. You cannot multiply a number that is accurate to two decimals by a number that has unknown accuracy and come up with a product with two decimals. Seventh grade math. The only number that is precise to two decimals is Touhy's empirical measurement of 9:01.81. Any conversion is not accurate to 1/100s, or 1/10th, nor even 1 full second. Take JK's calculation, round off to a full second, then give +/- five seconds and that would be acceptable.

A better thread starter would be for you to just acknowledge what she just did. She's a real badass who just set a National HS record. Quit trying to insert JK's infinite wisdom into everything.

Just saying.

R Johnson: Mary Cain was a sixteen year old 1:59.xx 800m runner. Mary Cain should be compared to Mary Decker as a high school runner.

The lede here is that Tuohy ran 9:01.81 3000m NHSR. Let that sink in before you remind us to burst bubbles and point out that Cain's 2M run is superior.

Mary Cain's enroute 3000 meter time of 9:04.51 (during her 9:38.68 2-Miler in 2013) was an FAT clocking so it is accurate to 0.01 ... so there is no reason to convert her 2-Mile time (Mary was fast over last 200+ meters). Similarly, as a 9th-grader at Bronxville HS in 2011 (long before Salazar), Mary won the outdoor NY State Meet 1500 meter race in 4:17.84 (running away from Aisling Cuffe over the last lap) with a 64.02 FAT final 400m and a hand-timed final 200m in just under 30 seconds (one coach in the stands told me her final 100m was in 14 seconds).

It seems possible Mary Cain could have run faster for the 3000m distance during that 2-Mile race, but she did not!

Malmo makes a valid observation concerning a significant margin of error when converting a 200+ meter difference in distance with respect to an any records. And it was a great performance by Katelyn Tuohy.

A 10 second range in converting 3k to 2 mile? Heck, let’s just use +\- 10 sec to get a 99.99% confidence interval.

Ok about this?

Mary Cain ran a 2 mile - which is 3218.69 meters - in 9:38.68. If she had run that even paced, she would have hit 3000 in 8:59.37 so clearly a 9:38.68 2 mile is better than Tuohy's 9:01.81 in 3000.

It's not subjective at all to say that when someone runs a farther distance at a faster average pace than a shorter distance that it's a superior performance. It's a fact. For 2 straight miles, Cain averaged running 18.248 feet every second. For 3000, Tuohy averaged running 18.166 feet every second. Please don't tell me it's subjective that Cain's mark is superior.

zxcvzcxv wrote:

The lede here is that Tuohy ran 9:01.81 3000m NHSR. Let that sink in before you remind us to burst bubbles and point out that VooDoo math makes Cain's 2M run is superior.