I've worn mostly "zero drop" shoes ever since they became popular because they feel fine and I am a midfoot striker. Recently I've worn some racing flats that have more typical 10mm drop and they are fine as well. Is this just a gimmick or should I take heel-to-toe drop into consideration when choosing a shoe?
My ankles can testify it is not a gimmick.
I was wearing low drop shoes forever, then recently switched to 10 or more because. I'm now messed up all over.
DK set the WR in much-less-then-zero-drop Boosts, and was never heard from again.
Maybe it's just me, but when I run barefoot I do not heel-strike.
Hardloper wrote:
I've worn mostly "zero drop" shoes ever since they became popular because they feel fine and I am a midfoot striker. Recently I've worn some racing flats that have more typical 10mm drop and they are fine as well. Is this just a gimmick or should I take heel-to-toe drop into consideration when choosing a shoe?
Is elastic recoil of your heel cords a gimmick?
Zero drop works best for some people but it grew into a quasi-religion in the Born to Run days. That seems to have died down somewhat.
Zero drop WITH cushion makes a lot of sense.
Seems since the 1980s we've had cushion with slope.
Then came the minimalist movement/ born to run which led to zero drop AND no cushion.
Now we have ZERO drop and cushion---why should we introduce a slope?
Why was slope ever introduced???
also, weren't ALL running shoes before the 1980's "ZERO DROP"?
Old school pictures I see of onitsuka tigers, early nike's etc sure don't seem to have a bloated heel and downward slope.
What the hell did people run in from 1900 to 1950's? Leather flats?
I started running in the 1990s, when bloated heel with slope was the norm.
Is there any biomechanical reason to introduce a slope to the natural running motion/gait?
It seems ZERO DROP should be the DEFAULT for running shoes.
I was a big fan and proponent of the minimalist push 10 years ago, and even ran a bunch in Puma H-streets if anybody remembers those (basically a Puma harambee spike with a flat rubber outsole).
I loved the zero drop, but did note that sometimes the old foot bones could have used a little more cushion between the rocks and roads.
Life responsibilities took me out of the running game the last 5-8 years, and now upon my return I see the market swung the complete opposite direction, with these giant foam pillow Hoka shoes, and manufacturers like New balance and others stopped making their minimalist lines??? bummer
oh monica mon wrote:
Zero drop WITH cushion makes a lot of sense.
Seems since the 1980s we've had cushion with slope.
Then came the minimalist movement/ born to run which led to zero drop AND no cushion.
Now we have ZERO drop and cushion---why should we introduce a slope?
Why was slope ever introduced???
That's basically what I want to know. Many good racing flats used by pros have ~10mm drop so I assume there's a good reason.
The only reason for the 10 mm drop is the heel striking runners seem to want it.
Those who try to land on their forefoot have a difficult time doing it in the 10 mm drop shoes.
Running shoes in the '70s usually had heel wedge giving about 4-6mm drop. Nike introduced much higher heels in the late '70s. The idea was to get more heel cushion while keeping the mid-foot "normal". Not much consideration was given to changed mechanics. Nikes ruined my knees by age 21, but was lucky it wasn't permanent and was able to resume 15 years later.
Hardloper wrote:
oh monica mon wrote:
Zero drop WITH cushion makes a lot of sense.
Seems since the 1980s we've had cushion with slope.
Then came the minimalist movement/ born to run which led to zero drop AND no cushion.
Now we have ZERO drop and cushion---why should we introduce a slope?
Why was slope ever introduced???
That's basically what I want to know. Many good racing flats used by pros have ~10mm drop so I assume there's a good reason.
i believe the 10mm drop is supposed to put less stress on your calves. so you're less fatigued at the end of a race. not 100% sure of that
Not a gimmick, but not suitable for every runner. Works well for those who mid foot strike and have an efficient strike. A chronic heel striker is going to have issues unless they change their gait.
Zero drop is harder on the feet/calves, higher drop tends to be harder on the knees/hips. Lots of cushion is hard on the knees/hips, minimalist is hard on the feet/calves. I think zero drop with moderate cushioning makes a lot of sense.
If you have Achilles issues, go 10-12 mm drop. If you have planter issues, go low drop.
If you're getting old, go high drop, 10-12 mm. I read that old people can run into their 90s with high drop shoes that take the strain off of their Achilles tendons. Otherwise the Achilles burn out and the low drop runners getting old have to hang up their sneakers or discover high drop.
I'm dealing with an Achilles injury from running on an inclined treadmill too much, so I picked up some Brooks Ghost with the 12 mm drop.
Take everything I said above with a grain of salt though, just stuff I read in comment sections while researching Achilles treatment.
Started wearing altras in 2013, I’m now 23. People say I have good form, I think having good arches and consistently running the past 10 years in addition to the low drop shoes has contributed l.
Recently I’ve had post tib issues and a stress fracture in the tibia. Got some nike pegs, I feel like knees a bitt stiffer.. but my post tib feels a little better. Planning on switching off between the two hehe
It's faddy marketing. That came out of the barefoot running fad. Then you had maximum cushioning. What people will hopefully understand is that the best shoe for 90% of people is a shoe with a thick, firm midsole with some good shock absorption/cushioning, a comfortable, breathable upper and a 12 mm drop!
Why was slope introduced? Because podiatrists said by doing so it takes pressure off the Achilles therefore preventing injuries.
worksforsome wrote:
Zero drop is harder on the feet/calves, higher drop tends to be harder on the knees/hips. Lots of cushion is hard on the knees/hips, minimalist is hard on the feet/calves. I think zero drop with moderate cushioning makes a lot of sense.
Great summary. Agreed on all points.
Over the long term, much better to strengthen your feet and lower limbs, than to invite knee and hip trouble with slope and mushy cushion. After running in minimal shoes for years, such as XC waffles, racing flats, etc, when I put on a heavily cushioned shoe I can really feel the instability and reverberations up the kinetic chain to knees and hips, as you said.
Give me a flat zero drop shoe with some enough cushion so I don't break my metatarsals and I am happy.
ftuk wrote:
It's faddy marketing. That came out of the barefoot running fad. Then you had maximum cushioning. What people will hopefully understand is that the best shoe for 90% of people is a shoe with a thick, firm midsole with some good shock absorption/cushioning, a comfortable, breathable upper and a 12 mm drop!
Yeah, no. Shoes with a drop cause injuries for me. You say it is a fad, but it is not. For millions of years we ran without a wedge. And I know for my feet and biomechanics, this wedge causes major problems for me.
Are you high? wrote:
ftuk wrote:
It's faddy marketing. That came out of the barefoot running fad. Then you had maximum cushioning. What people will hopefully understand is that the best shoe for 90% of people is a shoe with a thick, firm midsole with some good shock absorption/cushioning, a comfortable, breathable upper and a 12 mm drop!
Yeah, no. Shoes with a drop cause injuries for me. You say it is a fad, but it is not. For millions of years we ran without a wedge. And I know for my feet and biomechanics, this wedge causes major problems for me.
Agreed. I find it impossible to believe that after millions of years man suddenly needs a significant slope underfoot--that running is inherently injurious.
I know a counter-argument is that before recent times we ran on softer surfaces. That's why I grant you the need for underfoot CUSHION but I fail to see the logic of a need for underfoot SLOPE.
Podiatrists say running is inherently injurious and is safer with heel wedge? Any source you can cite? Doesn't that simply rob the achilles it's wonderful elastic power and fundamentally change our biomechanics?
Rato. wrote:
Hardloper wrote:
I've worn mostly "zero drop" shoes ever since they became popular because they feel fine and I am a midfoot striker. Recently I've worn some racing flats that have more typical 10mm drop and they are fine as well. Is this just a gimmick or should I take heel-to-toe drop into consideration when choosing a shoe?
Is elastic recoil of your heel cords a gimmick?
Did you type "heel cords" with the opposable grabbers of your stuff touchers on your cellular distance talking device?