How Many 10+ Mile Tempos in Marathon Training Cycle

My marathon goal was to run around 2.30-35 (just under 6 min/mile) and I tried 2 different approaches to MP tempo runs. In both cases, I (attempted to) run a tempo at MP once a week, mostly on a Friday (long run Sunday, track workout Tuesday), which I guess is pretty standard 3 workouts/week supplemented with as much mileage as you can do without breaking down or leaving you tired for workouts:

1. Starting at 8 miles, increase 2 miles a week until I got to 18 miles, all ran at the same pace (MP, 6 min/mile approx). I ended up running 8, 10, 12, half marathon race, 15 and 18. The last 2 were a big struggle running alone for 90+min at MP. My marathon was 2.39

2. 10 mile tempo every week at approx 160 bpm heart rate. I did 5 of these, a half marathon and a 30km race in the build up. I didn't see a lot of progress in the tempos (expected to run quicker at the same HR the more of them I did, but the weather conditions and training fatigue seemed to have a bigger impact on pace). DNF in my marathon

I got to the 160 bpm heart rate by running 10km on the track at 6 min/mile and my average HR was 159.

In my first approach, I ran on a gravel trail. In my 2nd, I ran on a tarmac path. Both flat. I felt I needed to prepare my legs for the pounding on a harder surface after I slowed in the last 5km of my 2.39 marathon, but this may have resulted in my DNF, due to slight injuries.

I don't know what conclusions to draw and what approach I'd take if I ran (or coached) another marathon. With the progression of distance, I had the better result (I didn't dnf) but I felt the first 1-2 weeks were easy and the last 2 weeks i struggled to hold the pace which knocked my confidence going into the marathon.

In the 2nd approach, I tried to run the last 30 min of my long runs (2 hours) at MP, to supplement the tempo work. I found this tough but also thought it was beneficial.

One main learning was, try to find training partners to help you out on tempos or long runs. People argue running on your own makes you mentally tough for the race, but I found the pace is slower, so conclude the physiological benefit of running a faster workout in a group, outweighs any psychological benefit you might gain from solo runs.

I also probably obsessed a bit too much on pace and HR, trying to control things like a scientific experiment, because I was training alone. I almost forgot to enjoy running and certainly lost a competitive edge of racing training partners, as I was training to control my efforts all the time

During my most recent training cycle, I ran four workouts of 10+ mile continuous work at MP, plus two other workouts totaling 10 and 12 miles of tempo broken up into the long run.

3 weeks out I ran 6MP + 1T + 6MP +1T for a total of 14 miles averaging just under MP.

5 weeks out I ran 8MP + 1T + 4MP +1T +1MP for a total of 15 miles at MP or faster.

7 weeks out I ran a straight 15 at MP, and 8 weeks out I ran a 20 miler with the middle 10 slightly slower than MP.

10 weeks out I ran a 20 miler with segments of 5-4-3 miles at MP with an easy mile in between.

11 weeks out I ran a 20 miler with a 4-3-2-1 at MP with an easy mile in between.

These were my "bread and butter" tempos this past summer and I was fitter than I had ever been. In previous cycles I usually did two or three 10 mile tempo runs with little to no quality in the long runs. The inclusion of these longer workouts helped quite a bit this time around.

"T" pace is threshold pace, or about half marathon race pace.

Depends on how long your cycle is. That's a fairly big workout, but could be done every 3 weeks or so. Some other fartleks and interval training and hills in the other weeks.

Which workout are you referring to?

b runs wrote:

Title says it all. I'm curious how many of these long medium efforts a person usually does as I don't really like tempos but I've been reading that a lot of plans really only have three or four key workouts like this. That's less intimidating.

Overrated I think. You’re better off running the last 5mi of a 22mi run at MP. That way you are trying to run MP while fatigued. Also just building pace awareness through lots of shorter MP runs. I would do a 6mi MP run weekly for months in addition to a 22+ miler with the last 4-5mi at MP and then do a couple 12-18mi “races” as MP runs. The 12-18mi races or runs gives you the ability to practice drinking water and Gatorade on the run. Ideally you would build up that long run to a 10easy/10MP effort. You could also do back to back tempos....I would eventually do a 4miler uptempo....say half marathon pace....then the next day my 6miler at MP. Again, to replicate running MP while fatigued.

MP is stupid easy. MP while fatigued is not.

I was only 2:32 but ran my PRs using the above.

Alan

I think you should incorporate both the long runs with MP at the end (like Alan suggested, 22mi with last 5 MP) and the long runs with MP segments in the middle.

I don't think you need to go more than 15 miles around MP in a long run for a sub-3hr marathoner.

I think doing races at MP is a waste and a lazy excuse to not do them some other time. how many 12-18mi races are you really going to find in the 12-16 weeks before your marathon?

personally I'd only do a few runs with more than 10-12mi at MPish. in my best buildup I did 14 miles averaging MP 4 weeks out, within a 21 mile run. that was my biggest workout for sure. others were 2x5mi MP, a few progression style long runs ending with some miles around MP, and a couple alternating tempo repeat workouts that ended up being about 10mi at MP.

you don't need to run MP every week, but it should become the focus in the last 4 weeks or so, so you can practice the pace and feel comfortable.

I am doing those instead of long runs. But I am actn3 recessive

It depends. Some training systems include very little or even no running at MP. In my marathon buildup, I focused specifically on MP and did a long tempo close to MP every other week as my primary workout: 8.5, 10, 11, 13.1, 11, 14, then 2 x 5 a couple weeks out from the race. None of these were meant as long runs, but you're still putting in 14-19 miles by the time you finish a warm-up and cool down. For me, MP (around 6:35) is challenging enough that I can't get on pace without a 2-4 mile warm-up.

I didn't do too many 10+ mile MP (6:01) runs in my last buildup. Things that I did:

Lots of regular runs @6:20 pace

Weekly tempo runs 5-6 miles @5:45

Some shorter track workouts

A couple hillly 10 milers @6:00

Weekly long run (sometimes w/MP built in).

8 mile run @ 5:50

22 mile Race simulator w/hills @6:20

I more just modified my 10k training to fit for the marathon, as I just did the one. However, I wasn't overtrained on race day, but was prepared enough to run comfortably the whole way.