For sure wrote:
What the FUk?!?! wrote:
He’s dirtier than Galen and that’s saying something!
+1
And Willis never got Olympic Gold... and isn't exactly clean.
You have reason to believe Nick Willis 'isn't exactly clean'? You mean like failed tests, such as the cheats who finished ahead of him in Beijing?
hacksaw wrote:
What about Rod Dixon and John Walker?
Yes Rod Dixon is in the mix (1500 3:33 5000m 13:17), he won Olympic bronze in the 1500m and narrowly missed the same result in the 5000m in Munich (and the Gold was won by a confirmed blood doper).
I know I ruled out 'potential' as the criteria, but perhaps you have to agree that Jakob's times run at 17 are superior (even given the decades separating them and the Monaco track etc). And aside from the European double, Jakob also double medalled in the 1500/5000 in the World Junior Championships (at 17), and given the age cheating and doping prevalent in those championships, that was quite an achievement.
Walker did record a decent 5000m time (13:19) but his move up to that distance was a bit of a disappointment and never won a major medal.
Jakob Fan wrote:
You have reason to believe Nick Willis 'isn't exactly clean'? You mean like failed tests, such as the cheats who finished ahead of him in Beijing?
Nonsense. The guru explaint why Kiprop started doping in 2017!
Jakob Fan wrote:
hacksaw wrote:
What about Rod Dixon and John Walker?
Yes Rod Dixon is in the mix (1500 3:33 5000m 13:17), he won Olympic bronze in the 1500m and narrowly missed the same result in the 5000m in Munich (and the Gold was won by a confirmed blood doper).
I know I ruled out 'potential' as the criteria, but perhaps you have to agree that Jakob's times run at 17 are superior (even given the decades separating them and the Monaco track etc). And aside from the European double, Jakob also double medalled in the 1500/5000 in the World Junior Championships (at 17), and given the age cheating and doping prevalent in those championships, that was quite an achievement.
Walker did record a decent 5000m time (13:19) but his move up to that distance was a bit of a disappointment and never won a major medal.
Your facts are fast and loose. Dixon won Olympic bronze at 1500m
in Munich and missed out on the bronze in the 5k at Montreal in '76. Viren, who won the race, is a suspected blood-doper but not confirmed. You're even more sloppy about Walker. You say he didn't medal when he was the Olympic champion over 1500 at Montreal. He was also the world mile record holder and first man to go below 3.50. So what if he didn't make an equivalent move up to the 5k. His achievements put him
amongst the greats while Jakob is still only in the realm of potential. And you are assuming that athletes today like Jakob don't know how to beat the dope testers. They do.
Far Out West wrote:
Why do you think he's clean?
Jakob Fan wrote:
I know it sounds crazy given that he's just turned 18, but thinking about it, could Jakob already be the greatest ever clean 1500/5000m runner in history?
I'm not talking about his potential, but his actual achievements already?
1500m 3:31 and 5000m 13:17. Most people think he could likely have already ran under 13 minutes. O.K., so I'm contradicting myself perhaps regarding 'potential', but he has achieved the remarkable feat of winning the European 5000m title the day after winning Gold in the 1500m.
I'm not saying he is already the greatest ever, but everybody I can think of with clearly better credentials is strongly associated with the EPO era, or like Mo, has had some doping suspicions raised.
Other contenders :
Steve Ovett 3:30 1500 and 13:20 5000m, World record holder 1500m, European champion, and a Commonwealth champion at 5000m.
Nick Willis : 3:29 1500m pb and Olympic Gold, three Olympic finals, and a 5000m of 13:20.
There is the same level of doping suspicion surrounding the Ingerbritsens as Mo Farah.
The Ingerbritsen brothers had suspicious blood scores noted in the fancy bears leak.
I will also put forward Venuste Niyongabo as a clean 15/5k runner with much greater achievements than Jakob.
No doping controversies at all, 3:29, 13:03.
1500m world championship bronze and 5000m Olympic gold.
Jakob is good but the European champs are just about the weakest Area championships for middle and distance running. It was like a joke for Farah.
In recent years there is also Iguider. 3:28 and 12:59. There is no reason to suggest he is a doper, no dodgy blood scores, just the fact he is from Morocco which is a tad discriminatory in my opinion.
Morocco today is no more suspicious than the USA and definitely not more suspicious than Norway with it's blood-doped cross country skiing!
And also you are making the unsavoury assumption that every African ever was doping.
Rather than allowing that potentially one of the great Kenyan/Moroccan/Algerian/Ethiopian runners of the past and recent past was clean and happened to be better than the 17 year old Jakob.
Btw Fillp is currently better than Jakob in both the 15 and 5k.
Armstronglivs wrote:
Jakob Fan wrote:
Yes Rod Dixon is in the mix (1500 3:33 5000m 13:17), he won Olympic bronze in the 1500m and narrowly missed the same result in the 5000m in Munich (and the Gold was won by a confirmed blood doper).
I know I ruled out 'potential' as the criteria, but perhaps you have to agree that Jakob's times run at 17 are superior (even given the decades separating them and the Monaco track etc). And aside from the European double, Jakob also double medalled in the 1500/5000 in the World Junior Championships (at 17), and given the age cheating and doping prevalent in those championships, that was quite an achievement.
Walker did record a decent 5000m time (13:19) but his move up to that distance was a bit of a disappointment and never won a major medal.
Your facts are fast and loose. Dixon won Olympic bronze at 1500m
in Munich and missed out on the bronze in the 5k at Montreal in '76. Viren, who won the race, is a suspected blood-doper but not confirmed. You're even more sloppy about Walker. You say he didn't medal when he was the Olympic champion over 1500 at Montreal. He was also the world mile record holder and first man to go below 3.50. So what if he didn't make an equivalent move up to the 5k. His achievements put him
amongst the greats while Jakob is still only in the realm of potential. And you are assuming that athletes today like Jakob don't know how to beat the dope testers. They do.
Yes, sorry I meant Dixon missed out in Montreal.
Well Viren is not a 'confirmed' doper, if you like to believe that he really was referring to 'reindeer milk'.
Obviously I assumed that any reader of English would understand that I meant Walker did not medal in the 5000m. You seem to be nitpicking for the sake of it there. Yes, Walker's achievements at 1500 and Mile are in a different stratosphere to Jakob's very brief but remarkable career thus far, but I'm being clear that I mean 1500 AND 5000m. Walker made the Olympic final (in the 5000m to be clear) when the event was pretty weak, but Jakob's achievement in winning Euro gold the day after the 1500m, as well as winning bronze in the world Juniors and beating Barega - who ended the season ranked number 1 - all at 17 years of age, is arguably a much greater accomplishment.
No, you sir are assuming that guys like Jakob know how to beat the dope testers.
ex-runner wrote:
In recent years there is also Iguider. 3:28 and 12:59. There is no reason to suggest he is a doper, no dodgy blood scores, just the fact he is from Morocco which is a tad discriminatory in my opinion.
Morocco today is no more suspicious than the USA and definitely not more suspicious than Norway with it's blood-doped cross country skiing!
So is the IAAF ban on Russia discriminatory? If a Russian athlete had ran 3:28 and 12:59 in recent years, would you believe he was clean?
Jakob Fan wrote:
No, you sir are assuming that guys like Jakob know how to beat the dope testers.
That's not just an assumption. Public knowledge. E.g., just keep your blood bags at 200 ml.
Its getting boring when you put out these "facts" about norwegian athletes that is just pure fantasy.
-No, there has NEVER been a norwegian skier being caught for blood doping.
(If you had the decency to look into the facts about Johaug and Sundby, you would know these were both procedurical faults, but of course you wouldnt want to mess up your spicy accusations with that).
Henrik Ingebrigtsen was put on a Fancy Bear list over athletes with questionable test results - because his blood level reacted as it should after altitude training. That is why they train 3-4 months a year over 1500 meters.
NEVER has he or his brother been involved in any doping.
And Jakob was a super talent since he was 10. So he should start with doping at that age? Laughable. But keep on with the bullshit, "ex-runner", in the real world noone takes you seriously.
This is practically coevett and co’s orgasmic fantasy
Nor-way wrote:
Its getting boring when you put out these "facts" about norwegian athletes that is just pure fantasy.
-No, there has NEVER been a norwegian skier being caught for blood doping.
(If you had the decency to look into the facts about Johaug and Sundby, you would know these were both procedurical faults, but of course you wouldnt want to mess up your spicy accusations with that).
Henrik Ingebrigtsen was put on a Fancy Bear list over athletes with questionable test results - because his blood level reacted as it should after altitude training. That is why they train 3-4 months a year over 1500 meters.
NEVER has he or his brother been involved in any doping.
And Jakob was a super talent since he was 10. So he should start with doping at that age? Laughable. But keep on with the bullshit, "ex-runner", in the real world noone takes you seriously.
Exactly! The brothers also don't seem anything like Farah, who while being an East African, and runs for GB, but goes to East Africa to dope to incredible levels.
+1.
Farah doping is a 99.9% certainty.
Jakob doping is 30-40%.
Jimmy john wrote:
+1.
Farah doping is a 99.9% certainty.
Jakob doping is 130-140%.
Lol. There is already so much butthurt jealousy because Jakob is such a incredible athlete. Only because he is a European from Europe. Ooooh, some are just burning over that!
No.
/EOT
So he's presumed "clean" because he's... white?
Komen 3:29/12:39
Bekele 3:32/12:37
Geb 3:31/12:39
El G 3:26.00/12:50
Lagat 3:26.3/12:53
Farah 3:28.81/12:53
...
Webb 3:30/13:10
Komen 3:29/12:39
Bekele 3:32/12:37
Geb 3:31/12:39
El G 3:26.00/12:50
Lagat 3:26.3/12:53
Farah 3:28.81/12:53
Aouita 3:29.46/12:58
Iguider 3:28.8/12:59
Niyangabo 3:29.18/13:03
Webb 3:30/13:10
Parker Valby post 5k interview... Worst of all time? Are Parker Valby interviews always cringe?
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