Could a marathon course in the United States be made that would be as fast as Berlin and be legal for world records?

One needs to consider road conditions as well. The roads in Berlin are perfectly smooth,well maintained and promote a perfect foot strike. Roads in the U.S.A. are just not up to par.

It would probably need to be somewhere in the West if you want consistent weather. Most of the West is at altitude, so it would have to be on the West Coast. LA and Sand Diego are too warm year round, and Bay Area is too hilly so those are out.

Watsonville and Salinas, CA are at sea level, are board flat, and have perfect weather for much of the year. The Central Valley in winter would probably work as well, and you could probably find some good flat courses in the Willamette Valley or in northwest Washington state.

If you really wanted to game the system, you could try to find a loop course that has a strong prevailing tailwind on half the course but is protected from the wind by trees, buildings or hills on the other half.

The road from Furnace Creek to Badwater Basin almost literally flat, it is below sea level, is almost straight, and has very predictable wether. This might be the fastest place in the world to run, if not along the Dead Sea.

Compared to Berlin, you have less turns, a flatter course, more oxygen and more consistent weather.

ditto on RnR New Orleans

it was my first ever marathon so at the time I did not appreciate the course as much as I would now after having run a few more and being a bit faster/more concerned about how much a course can affect your times

very flat, only 1-2 sharp turns that I can think of, very likely will be ideal weather in February/March

...but Rock and Roll and their "style" makes it less appealing than it should be IMO

Run Down wrote:

I live in Atlanta and always wonder if we could make a course that fast. Seeing as how we have the trials, it's been on my mind.

I am from that area and trying to figure out where you get a flat 26.2 miles that would not be a loop done 8 times.

builditandtheywillrun wrote:

Somebody needs to build a ~10.5 km oval. A 4 lap marathon with no sharp turns. Either inside or outside of the paved oval there could be a dirt track for a very lame trail marathon or ultra.

You've basically described CERN.

Run Down wrote:

I'm just wondering if this is possible. In addition, I guess the half marathon comes to mind too.

I've wondered why Chicago doesn't put on the same race in the Spring time? But, I;m not too familiar with how the weather is in the spring in Chicago? So, if the weather is nice, why not have a double marathon throughout the year?

This idea could also work very, very well for Boston in the Fall. That course in the fall time would be amazing! Could you imagine how hard it would be for American runners to pick between Chicago, Boston or NYC in one season... it would be a crazy marathon season, and possibly dilute the competition, but perfect weather for sure.

asdfasdfsdf wrote:

I've long thought the fastest course would be some flat stretch of highway in Kansas or Nebraska or something. Point to point, no turns. Does anything like that exist? I guess wind would be an issue?

Yes, but it wouldn't be legal. ie. certified

Old And In The Way wrote:

FindMyMarathon.com course conversion says the Time Conversion between Berlin and the Houston Marathon is +0:00:07 in favor of Houston. Weather might play a factor but they are pretty similar - both really flat.

It's November and Houston is about to have a stretch of 80+ degree days. It doesn't matter how flat the course is if the weather sucks for running. The only time you'd get passable Marathon weather is probably Jan/Feb, which is a time no one ever peaks for.

course finder wrote:

If you really wanted to game the system, you could try to find a loop course that has a strong prevailing tailwind on half the course but is protected from the wind by trees, buildings or hills on the other half.

Shamrock Half-Marathon is like that. It's a record-eligible lollipop course, with the start/finish quite close. The wind is most commonly from the north there, meaning that it would be a headwind for the first half and a tailwind for the second half. However, a good chunk of the first half is protected by trees, while the entire second half is exposed to the tailwind. So you get 3+ miles of headwind, another 3+ miles that is shielded, and then a tailwind to come home.

All Chicago has to do is move the race back one or two weeks and the weather would be ideal each fall, but they believe Columbus day is a real holiday for some reason and have to do it that weekend

asdfasdfsdf wrote:

I've long thought the fastest course would be some flat stretch of highway in Kansas or Nebraska or something. Point to point, no turns. Does anything like that exist? I guess wind would be an issue?

There is a dude inNebraska already on it:

Seyta wrote:

It's November and Houston is about to have a stretch of 80+ degree days.

No, it's not.

Wrongo, bayou breath wrote:

Seyta wrote:

It's November and Houston is about to have a stretch of 80+ degree days.

No, it's not.

The Houston Marathon is in January.

asdfasdfsdf wrote:

I've long thought the fastest course would be some flat stretch of highway in Kansas or Nebraska or something. Point to point, no turns. Does anything like that exist? I guess wind would be an issue?

There was a guy from Vermont, John Dimick who ran a 2:11 marathon in New Orleans straight across a bridge back in the late '70s or early 80's. Don't recall if they would change the direction of the race according to the wind or not.

duh2 wrote:

builditandtheywillrun wrote:

Somebody needs to build a ~10.5 km oval. A 4 lap marathon with no sharp turns. Either inside or outside of the paved oval there could be a dirt track for a very lame trail marathon or ultra.

You've basically described CERN.

A few years ago I drew up this course:

https://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=6586470

I remember looking at a map to find the least-windy part of the country, and for some month this was it. Also zero elevation gain/loss, fewer than 20 turns, and it's in a town with a really cool name.

Run Down wrote:

I live in Atlanta and always wonder if we could make a course that fast. Seeing as how we have the trials, it's been on my mind.

Not in Atlanta proper. Nothing in Atlanta is anywhere near flat. As far as a course goes, maybe an out-and-back on the Silver Comet Trail. You'd have to limit participation to several dozen runners though.

Best weather-wise for a major city would be SF where the morning weather can be consistently cool 45-50 and dry most of the year with little wind. You just have to design the course along the flat portions by the bay and not hit any hills.

The actual SF Marathon is too hilly. It's mostly for runners who want to do a 300 foot climb so they can run across the Golden Gate bridge.