A unique perspective on Caster Semenya and women's sports

Pro News/Info/Results Distance

Page 3 of 3

1 2 3

Next Last

5 years ago 10/30/2018 8:14pm EDT

re: Baloney

Baloney wrote:
Those storylines - even the annoying ones - are just that storylines. In other words... those inspirational stories are about how sport is covered. And in that perspective, I think the woman referred to by the OP is right. Those perspectives are well received by women. We want to hear the human-interest background packages before and after competition.
But the event is still a COMPETITION... and we're grappling with whether this is an unfair advantage, or just another expression of the variance of the species. In the vein of whether being tall and willowy an unfair High Jump advantage, or being stocky and fast an unfair advantage to men wanting to be NFL linemen.
So I don't buy it. Overcoming adversity - wherever that adversity originates from - shouldn't be a factor in competition.

Adversity is what sport and life is all about. It is unfair advantages that should be legislated against.

5 years ago 10/30/2018 8:14pm EDT

re: Jdhsgdhd

Jdhsgdhd wrote:
The key point in my view is that unlike other world-ckass athletes, we've seen how Caster performs when her testosterone levels are brought back into the same range as her peers - she is still very good, but not destroying every challenger and rendering global championships basically predestined. Ajee Wilson has been a track prodigy her entire career, in the same vein as Allyson Felix, and she hasn't even really come close to beating Caster but for maybe one race. Think about how good Felix was in her prime, and imagine her getting absolutely handled in every championship in every style of race- this is essentially happening right now, and we can identify precisely why.

Felix would have been nothing if there was Semenya equivalent in her time/diastance.

5 years ago 10/30/2018 8:23pm EDT

re: Armstronglivs

Armstronglivs wrote:
If it wasn't just about the winning for women then we wouldn't have a problem with doping in women's sports. Oh, wait...
If it wasn't just about the winning for Semenya she wouldn't have a problem reducing her testosterone levels to those of her other female competitors. Oh, wait ...

Oh shoot.. +1

5 years ago 10/30/2018 9:57pm EDT

re: guy with a female friend

guy with a female friend wrote:
1 ..... Keep in mind, she is a runner, a good one, who trains hard, races hard, and wants to win. She's not oblivious to what Semenya means for the sport......
2..... But if the sum total of women's sports is "sports with boobs", then it will always be a worse version of men's sports.......
3....... what she is is a black intersex woman who works hard, fights for her place in the race, and wins.....
4.......whereas the equivalent wouldn't happen on the men's side.....

1 - I'd wager she's is not that good, and if winning was a priority she wouldn't support it. She doesn't see herself ever getting to the level where Semenya is and having to beat her.

2 - Would womens sports somehow be better if it was "sports with no boobs" . Hate to tell you this but boobs are a functioning biological component of a womens body and traditionally an integral part of raising children It's kinda part of what makes women women, take those away and it is men's sports, so what's the point?

3 - Castor coasts for what she gets, I have never seen her work hard, never had to fight for her place - the fighting is more attributable to her lawyer than her.

4 - Ever hear of Oscar Pistorius? Not as dominate as Semenya but he could dial his ability up or down, based on factors not available to the rest of the field. Also a great heart strings story.... But that did not end well....

But a great troll, sucked me in, I don't think anyone aside from strident SJWs actually think the situation is fair.

5 years ago 10/31/2018 1:09pm EDT

re: guy with a female friend

Isn't distance running, both men's and women's, largely decided by genetics in every case? Not many can be successful, and even fewer can be the best. If someone is the best, then, when elites are generally training to their maximum capability they must have some genetic advantage over the competition. Indeed, some men have more testosterone than others too. To those opposed to get, what do you suggest for Caster? She could not complete at nearly an elite level against men. She is still beaten by other women more than Kipchoge is beaten by other men.

Should we categorize distance running by how "manly" competitors look? That seems to be the suggestion of some posters in this thread. Really, who has a good idea for what should be done about this? Caster trains and performs at an elite level. Should she not then be allowed to compete at an elite level too?

5 years ago 10/31/2018 9:30pm EDT

re: Who has a better idea?

Who has a better idea? wrote:
Isn't distance running, both men's and women's, largely decided by genetics in every case? Not many can be successful, and even fewer can be the best. If someone is the best, then, when elites are generally training to their maximum capability they must have some genetic advantage over the competition. Indeed, some men have more testosterone than others too. To those opposed to get, what do you suggest for Caster? She could not complete at nearly an elite level against men. She is still beaten by other women more than Kipchoge is beaten by other men.
Should we categorize distance running by how "manly" competitors look? That seems to be the suggestion of some posters in this thread. Really, who has a good idea for what should be done about this? Caster trains and performs at an elite level. Should she not then be allowed to compete at an elite level too?

Genetics determine that most athletes will never be elite, but for sport to be "fair" to Caster she should be allowed to compete at an elite level, even if her genetics indicate she would never be elite at an open - male - level. What bs. So to be elite is an entitlement? She has male organs that women don't, and it's that which enables her to compete at an elite level - but only amongst women. (Actually she doesn't so much "compete" as crush other female competitors.) In male sport, higher than normal levels of testosterone presuppose doping, according to the markers on the biological passport. It shows that higher than normal T-levels are believed to confer competitive advantage. Well, we know that - with Caster. But it's ok for her to have a T-level advantage no other woman can have by virtue of the fact other women don't have male reproductive organs. Actually, the IAAF doesn't seem to think that's ok, which is why it has proposed limiting T-levels in women's running within a prescribed female range. Sounds like a solution, to me. Caster would still be able to compete at an elite level but she wouldn't be able to make a mockery of the competition, as she is currently doing.

4 years ago 05/04/2019 5:33am EDT

re: JumpsDoctor

JumpsDoctor wrote:
Hi guys. I like Caster. I think she is inspiring. I think basically no one on this board (not even Jamin, Rojo, or Coevett) knows what it is like to be spoken about so hatefully by people who have never met you and have no real basis for judging your character (although I think Coevett is a meanie). I know many of you discriminate against her on what you perceive to be a scientific basis... but as I have said before: no one on this board has access to her medical information. Obviously the IAAF and CAS have access to information we don't, and based on that information they feel it is unfair for DSD athletes to compete against "real" women, but I don't find this gay compelling.
Caster was born with breasts and a vagina. She is not transgender. She has higher testosterone levels than many, many of her competitors. But I believe this is probably the case with *many* women. And anyone who asserts that she has internal testes may or may not be wrong, but until any one of you who references that anatomy provides actual medical evidence, this is really just an unjustified claim. I think if Caster raced in a sports bra and something shorter than half-tights she would receive less hate, and y'all would notice her masculinity a little bit less. I am not denying that she would still be very masculine, and with a chemical advantage, but I do think Caster is the victim of prejudice. I think the black women who have higher testosterone levels are demonized and called out for it more often, although there are others I can think of.
Brittney Reese, Allyson Felix, Shaunae Miller, and Dafne Schippers all seem to me like runners who have pretty high levels of testosterone that actually manifest in their appearances, although not to the extent that Caster's levels might affect her appearance and voice. However - and this is something I think about a lot - I think even Sydney's 400H PR is basically as impressive or more impressive than Caster's 800 PR. I know I'd be far more impressed with a teammate of mine running 52 than 1:54, but my thought is basically: how does someone like Sydney (who is not DSD or have a physical appearance that would imply a testosterone advantage) NOT have extremely high levels of testosterone compared to some of the women around her. Obviously there are genetic factors, biomechanical advantages one is born with, but I do feel like there must be many women who are so quick and strong (for instance, Ivana Spanovic - another gorgeous lady) that they are rocking with levels of testosterone (especially if everyone on this board is quick to assert that this particular developmental difference is amongst the most significant factor in determining performances.
In general, if Caster were running 1:49, I might agree that she is too advantaged by her physical composition. However, at the pace she has been running, I think she is great for track and field, and especially women's track and field. Sure - you have ladies like that woman from Poland who claimed she was the white champion, but if you look at the women's 800 and the improvements that new and veteran performers have been making in it, I think it really is fair to say that Caster is pushing the standard. It makes me sad to think that will change. Just some food for thought, but I wish people would be more accepting and less constrained by societal constructs of men and women are. Sure, Caster might be in part a "mutant" in some biological sense of the word, but so are people who have blue eyes, ginger hair, or walk on two legs instead of four. She has the support of her country, and of many fans around the world. It is definitely not as clear cut of an issue as many of you make it out to be.

Page 3 of 3

1 2 3

Next Last

Reply Replying to

Username

Password

Leave the password field blank to post anonymously.

Post Preview

By posting you acknowledge that you have read and abide by our Terms and Conditions.

Remember me on this device.

A unique perspective on Caster Semenya and women's sports

Of General Interest

This thread has already been deleted.

You have been subscribed.

A unique perspective on Caster Semenya and women's sports

Follow runNomad.com

Block runNomad.com

Follow Armstronglivs

Block Armstronglivs

Of General Interest

This thread has already been deleted.

Reply Replying to

You have been subscribed.