Looks very solid.
Maybe one hill workout every week or two
Most 26.2 courses have some hills
Looks very solid.
Maybe one hill workout every week or two
Most 26.2 courses have some hills
Smoove wrote:
In the build up - does that mean the period from now until January or after January or both? My take is that you can do a lot of what you have been doing from now until January, but should generally increase your volume during that period. I don't think you'll need the extra volume to hit 2:30, but I think it would be helpful should you ultimately shift your goal to something that comes closer to maxing you out on race day. From January on, the goal should be to get in as many miles as you can without materially increasing your risk of injury and without sacfrificng the quality of your workouts. I think you identify the workouts you intend to do and then build up the mileage around the workouts rather than identify the mileage you want and fit in the workouts the best you can. I wouldn't look at Karp's survey as the holy grail of marathon training. It is an interesting aggregation of self-reported data, but it comes from an atypical group and is self-reported, which raises questions about certain types of error.
I would not go over 22 or so. I just don't think enough benefit is there to justify the cost. Plus, the long runs with faster paced work may end up at only 22 miles, but those faster paced miles sort of stretch out the long run to make it feel like a longer effort. I would note that there is also a sub segment of the running world that emphasizes "time on your feet" during marathon training over mileage. So if you are gettting 2:30 doing 22 miles, that's plenty enough in their worldview to prepare you for 2:25-2:30 of marathon racing.
I'll echo the "time on your feet" sentiment. Runs for you in 2 hour plus range will be key. Maybe get one in during your buildup that extends to 2:40-2:45 as well....
Good luck, op. I for one would love to see a regularly updated thread on your goal. That 5k time blows me out of the water, so I hope you call this your B goal.
Just some friendly advice in case you don’t frequent the boards, don’t listen to JS. I don’t say that to be mean to him, but his posts are cookie cutter and spammy. Smoove is full of good, genuine advice here, though I am biased due to having success with Daniels’ 2Q/whatever edition of his book you follow. If you have the time, I recommend checking his book out from the local library if they have it and at least skimming it, though you probably already know many of his philosophies in practice and don’t realize it. Don’t take it all as gospel as many have, but recognize that his training has good structure (at least for people with my physiology).
As to Daniels' book, it is my bible, but I heartily recommend the 2nd edition over the 3rd edition as he made some modifications that I think were more about having a reason to publish a 3rd edition than anything else.
David Wilson wrote:
Thanks: nothing against coaches, of course, but I do think I'll stick to self-directed training (albeit with more of a plan than usual.)
A couple of questions I have still been divided on are,
(1) Quantity vs. Quality: during the marathon build-up, whether it will be better to push mileage higher (with spells of 110-120 mpw), or rather to maintain 80-100 with more quality/specific running. A poster above mentioned 25% of miles at MP or faster as being typical of OTQ-level runners: I've not yet checked the numbers, but suspect that most weeks I am well below this figure.
(2) Whether or not to attempt the marathon distance in training. Some seem to get away with long runs no longer than 20mi or so, while others go over-distance. My first thought is that even doing 26+mi once fairly slow in training would help to lower the mental barrier of the full distance.
My advice is: 1) Build your training week out from the quality workouts you need, maxVO2-intervals, lactate threshold intervals and the specific long run. Then you just run enough aerobic power steady runs in between.And just maintain your 80-100 miles or just cut the mileage.
2) A good rule of thumb is to do the same amount of total time in training as you run in the race. So your longest run should be 2.30 - 2.40 hours
Update:
* I had a decent autumn with a good stretch at 90-100 miles a week, not doing any hard workouts but racing cross-country or the odd road race most weekends.
* Ran 1:10:48 for a half-marathon in November, which felt fine although I'd no competition to push me.
* Have been lazy about long runs and not done anything over 15-16 miles yet.
* Had to take the past 3 weeks easy, with a bit of a hamstring and foot strain, but seem to be running alright again: should be at 70-75mi this week with some light fartlek.
* Looking at this, psychologically anyway, as the beginning of the marathon build-up proper (19 weeks to go from Sunday.) Will try to prioritize the long run for the next month or two in hopes of getting comfortable with 20+ miles.
David Wilson wrote:
Update:
* I had a decent autumn with a good stretch at 90-100 miles a week, not doing any hard workouts but racing cross-country or the odd road race most weekends.
* Ran 1:10:48 for a half-marathon in November, which felt fine although I'd no competition to push me.
* Have been lazy about long runs and not done anything over 15-16 miles yet.
* Had to take the past 3 weeks easy, with a bit of a hamstring and foot strain, but seem to be running alright again: should be at 70-75mi this week with some light fartlek.
* Looking at this, psychologically anyway, as the beginning of the marathon build-up proper (19 weeks to go from Sunday.) Will try to prioritize the long run for the next month or two in hopes of getting comfortable with 20+ miles.
With my system a runner with 1:10:48 half is guaranteed to run a marathon in at least 1:10:48 x 2 + 5 min = 2.26.36 !
And I coach that time in 8-12 weeks. And it can be done easy on 55- 75 mpw.
What do you mean by guaranteed? Will you reimburse the athlete their coaching fees and for their race entry and travel expenses if they don't run the goal time?
Smoove wrote:
What do you mean by guaranteed? Will you reimburse the athlete their coaching fees and for their race entry and travel expenses if they don't run the goal time?
What I mean by guaranteed? Well......I have coached about 100 runners so far in 3 years time, ALL of them have improved. Some of them big improvement in relatively short coaching time, 2-3 months only.The system is demonstrably solid to give the results the runner and the coach expects.
- Guaranteed Magic! -
SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:
Smoove wrote:
What do you mean by guaranteed? Will you reimburse the athlete their coaching fees and for their race entry and travel expenses if they don't run the goal time?
What I mean by guaranteed? Well......I have coached about 100 runners so far in 3 years time, ALL of them have improved. Some of them big improvement in relatively short coaching time, 2-3 months only.The system is demonstrably solid to give the results the runner and the coach expects.
- Guaranteed Magic! -
seems legit
Update:
The hamstring and foot have continued a bit wonky, so workouts have been erratic and mileage rather low, but everything is more or less holding together and I've managed a few long runs.
Week of 10th Dec: 78 miles. Tues & Thurs light fartlek, Saturday easy 16-mile long run.
Week of 17th Dec: 84 miles. Tuesday light fartlek, Saturday 5K in 16:38, no long run.
Week of 24th Dec: 93 miles. Wednesday 21 miles ~7min pace, which felt alright; Saturday 16:12 5K.
Week of 31st Dec: 83 miles. Tuesday 2x5K in 16:54, 16:41, during which I strained the hamstring again somewhat; Sunday 13 or 14 miles ~6:40 pace.
Week of 7th Jan: 86 miles. No harder running except strides. Sunday 22 miles at 6:40-45 pace, still feeling a bit sore and unbalanced here and there but found the distance bearable.
My plan now is to keep ~90 miles/week for the next few weeks, trying to add some work at half-marathon to marathon pace on Wednesdays while bringing down the long-run pace slightly (erring on the side of caution to keep minor injuries from flaring up.)
On the subject of long runs: any suggestions for how to begin taking water and gels as one would do during a race? I've not done any of this yet.
I've no races firmly scheduled until the Hague half-marathon in early March, which should be a good test of fitness, but will try to do a couple more road races before then.
With 14 weeks to go -
M - AM: 8 easy / PM: 4 easy
T - AM: 8 easy / PM: 4 easy + strides
W - AM: 13 moderate with 20mins ~marathon pace / PM: 5 easy
T - AM: 7 easy-moderate / Noon: 5 easy
F - AM: 6 easy / PM: 7 easy
S - AM: 6 easy-moderate + strides / Noon: 4 easy
S - 22 moderate (feeling quite good in the middle miles, but bonked the last few.)
Total- 99 miles
Plan for next week: long intervals or fartlek on Wednesday, shorter long run (~16?) with some MP tempo on Saturday or Sunday.
With respect to gels, just buy a box and start taking a couple on long runs. I find that I only need them on 20 milers or shorter LRs with more quality, but it's good to get used to them in case you have a bad response.
You can also get a bit more into it and train your body to digest more calories on the run if you want. There's some science behind optimising calories/hour that's worth checking out.
Ho Hum wrote:
With respect to gels, just buy a box and start taking a couple on long runs. I find that I only need them on 20 milers or shorter LRs with more quality, but it's good to get used to them in case you have a bad response.
You can also get a bit more into it and train your body to digest more calories on the run if you want. There's some science behind optimising calories/hour that's worth checking out.
don't buy a box yet until you've tested various types and flavors of gels.
start with the basics...a vanilla or chocolate Gu. if you have a 20-22mi run, take one after 60min and another after 90min. that will be a good test. make sure that you plan the run such that there is water available around those 60 and 90 minute marks. you need to chase your gels with water for them to work properly. if there is no water along your route, either bring water or change your route (stop by your car a couple times maybe).