D3 Coach Needs Help With Struggling Runner

When my thyroid issues were bad it slowed my 5K time by about 2 minutes.

Is it possible he has compartment syndrome?

I got it Junior year of college and it caused my training and performances to fall off a cliff in a very similar way. I didn't have any pain, my lower legs would just go dead and get really tight. Took a while to get the correct diagnosis because I didn't have the classic symptoms.

Just another idea, has he had heatstroke badly recently at all? That put me on a decline for a long time last time I had it, caused me to drop about a minute on my 5k, and running in the heat has never been the same. Its not necessarily the problem, but could be doing some damage if he had it.

Based on the information you have put forward, all other things being equal, I would say your runner is doing a lot of "gray zone" training. He's adapted to the kind of work you are giving him, such that he is getting no further meaningful stimuli from your boring training. Ask yourself: what stimulus are you going for? Mileage run in such a way, valuing tempo times in such a way...Mileage and tempos prescriptions may have little or nothing to do with running a good 3k for your athlete at this moment in time. Training isn't repeatable, and there's more than one way to skin a cat.

He is scheduled for Thyroid blood test and we decided to also test Testosterone tomorrow and iron which I am sure is fine. We will have results early next week.

HRE, he is not racing his training. As I stated before, the bulk of his training 80% of it is at 7:00-7:20 pace. That is not racing training. In fact other posters are saying, he is training at way too slow of pace and needs to go faster and that is his problem.

He is not "racing" his tempos. This is a guy who as a freshman was doing 5M tempos in the 27:20-28:00 range. Now, when he tries to run a 29:30 pace tempo he "dies" and we have to stop it or he fades to 30:00 to 30:30. If anyone considers this "racing" his tempos, then I don't know what to say. When he would do for example repeat 1000s freshman year he would run them in 2:58 to 3:10 range depending on what part of the season and what we were trying to accomplish from the workout. Now if he tries repeat 1000s he cannot run 3:30 pace without falling apart.

It is not a training issue. I don't think you guys understand the difference between an 8:45 3000 and a 9:20 3000. It is not just a bad race here and there either, If he was "stagnating" he would be running in the 8:45-8:55 range and we would have to modify his training. Let me put it so you can better understand. This is Like Galen Rupp, a 13:00 guy in his 5000 prime going over to run in a Diamond League race back when he was a track runner and seeing the race won in 12:55 and Rupp running 14:02 and a half a lap behind the second to last guy. Then the next race which is 3000 and Rupp, who is a 7:30 3000 guy running 8:05 in a race won in 7:28 . Would any of you say "gee, Rupp needs to tweak his training". Of course you wouldn't, it would be obvious that something is radically wrong with Rupp.

Now if my guy were doing workouts of an 8:40 guy and racing at 9:05, then yes there would be obvious psychological issues, not physical issues. He is doing the workouts of the 9:20 guy and racing at 9:20.

I think your on to something with the thyroid issues I had the same problem as you described- fall off of times- sensitivity to heat and cold. Granted this was back in the 80's I had a hard time convincing a doctor to diagnose my condition. I had to shop around until I had a doctor who would perform the tests. I have been on levothroxine for over 30 years my racing improved after a few months of treatment. If this is the diagnosis I would suggest you keep your runners training the same and you will see his running improve in a month or two.

Coach, it seems to me that this sort of issue could easily be, and probably is a training problem. By the way, to rule everything out, you might want your kid tested for Lyme tick. Running slow at 7:20 pace for 8-10 miles a day trains your runner to be a person who can do just that, not more, necessarily. If the athlete gets used to this regimen, it becomes easy. If it becomes easy, they aren't producing the hormones or storing energy in a way that would let their metabolism handle a tempo as well as before. But who cares about fast tempos anyways? The goal is a fast 3k, you aren't training someone to handle workouts as they should appear on paper. I would say to have your guy start running fartlek and high-end speed/hill and power stuff until he feels better.

Any time he tries to do tempos or workouts or races feels terrible (nd looks terrible, I can see he is struggling. It is definitely not psychological, the problem is physical.

If you don't know what the problem is, you can't say that it's NOT psychological. In addition to the things you're already doing I would have him visit a psychologist for an evaluation. Good luck!

D3 Coach wrote:

His roommate just told me when the air conditioning is on, he is walking around the dorm room with a coat on. Could this indicate a thyroid problem

I've many times put a coat on when people are running air conditioning, to avoid getting a draft or a chill.

I've done this all of my life, and feel that people who get hot just sitting around have very poor temperature regulation.

My ability to run in the heat has always been very good, and to run in cold weather as well.

But I don't like cold air blowing on me with no protection from the cold.

I think you're overlooking very simple solutions, and you're grasping at straws.

Good grief... wrote:

D3 Coach wrote:

His roommate just told me when the air conditioning is on, he is walking around the dorm room with a coat on. Could this indicate a thyroid problem

I've many times put a coat on when people are running air conditioning, to avoid getting a draft or a chill.

I've done this all of my life, and feel that people who get hot just sitting around have very poor temperature regulation.

My ability to run in the heat has always been very good, and to run in cold weather as well.

But I don't like cold air blowing on me with no protection from the cold.

I think you're overlooking very simple solutions, and you're grasping at straws.

LMAO this might the dumbest post I have ever seen on letsrun.

Interesting. Could be diet related. Is he trying to cut calories to keep the same weight he has always been? In my experience, being cold and running like crap was when I was cutting weight, or trying to stay at too low of a weight for me. When I ate more I ran better and was hot. Just a thought.

Have you considered having him take 2-3 months completely off, fall out of shape, and slowly build it all back up again?

Have athlete get blood work. Check to see if all levels are in heathy range especially iron (ferritin )

+++ 10 !!!

What you're describing is exactly what Lydiard would call racing his training; EXACTLY, hard efforts with continually slowing times. What you're describing in your example with Rupp happened to Craig Mottram to a lesser extent in the year he won the 3,000 at the World Cup a month or so before the race. Bideau had him cut out all running until a few days before the Cup and he bounced back for the win.

You seem to have your mind set on finding some sort of physical problem. You say it's not a psychological issue and it's not a training issue. Yet the whole point of your thread seemed to start by saying you have no idea what's going on or what to do about it. If you don't know what's going on or what to do about it why are you so fixated on there being a physical problem? Unless I've missed something you don't have any reason to believe this other than feeling it's the case.

What great experienced words! + 1

That should read "Bideau had him cut out all HARD running until a few days."

Thanks!

Has he begun taking any medicines? Obviously that’s not public information, but medicines that increase heart rate, among other potentially harmful side effects, can hurt athletic performance. Also, vitamin B deficiency could be something to look for. The college diet is not conducive to large amounts of vitamin B.