I meant to say "....on any summer long run....."
I meant to say "....on any summer long run....."
Old coach man, this is the first year I've experienced the apparent drop off in fitness in such a dramatic way. End of April 10 miles was covered in 75min. End of May had trouble running 5 miles under 40min. I think it's age and the heat/humidity. The decrement in adaptability to changes in weather, sleep, minor injuries, etc. still comes as something of a surprise after all these years. I like your idea about taking each run as it comes, dropping the ironclad agenda. The long run may have to be tabled for a while as well, per HRE's comment.
HRE wrote:
I probably never had the consistent heat and humidity that you have, but summers in the DC area could be pretty miserable and I just plowed through it like it was any other time of year. Looking back, I don't know if I would do that again. Maybe I'd roll with the punch to a fair degree. I remember an interview with Jack Bacheler where he said that he just didn't run in Gainesville in the summers because of the humidity and heat. And he had some great cross country races in November.
But I'd have a hard time not running for that long so maybe rolling with the punch for me would be not doing long runs. I have a Kiwi friend who used to post here who went to college in Arkansas. He's good friends with Bill Baillie so he was well steeped in the tradition of the long run. But Baillie told him to skip them during the Arkansas summers because he'd just make himself sick. And this is from Gary Cohen Running. He's talking to John Tuttle about training for the NYC Marathon during the summer in Florida:
GCR:
In the summer of 1983 we trained together in the Florida heat and humidity, never running over nine miles at a time. You did maintain mileage in the nineties per week by doing many double workouts. Then with a month’s training in cooler climates and two 20-mile long runs, you ran your PR 2:10:51 for third place at the New York City Marathon. What did you learn from that summer’s training that helped you at New York and the following spring’s Olympic Trials marathon?
JT
To tell you the truth, Florida was hot. I mean mad dog hot! Yes, training in Florida made everywhere else an easy place to train. If you remember, after that summer of training in the heat and humidity is when I went to Colorado Springs for the marathon training camp. Well, I ran the legs off of everyone even though it was at altitude. You know why - because there is nowhere tougher to train then Florida in July and August.
Nine miles is not much shorter than that 10 you struggled with but time wise you probably were out there a good bit longer than Tuttle was. Maybe you should scrap anything long until fall, do maybe a couple 40-45 minute runs a day at the less miserable ends of the day. Or maybe make peace with the treadmill in an air conditioned gym. I also seem to recall one really miserable stretch where I'd run a loop, maybe 2-3 miles, don't exactly remember, come back into the house where there was AC for a few minutes, go back for another loop, and do that until I'd run as much as I wanted.
Thanks, HRE. I have some friends who cut back their summer long runs to 10 or less. Me, I've never had to do that--until this year, when age and accumulating tweaks (knee, arthritic big toe) is finally bringing me down.
In the summer of 2006, a couple of months after my son was born, I decided at the age of 48 to train for my first marathon in more than two decades. It was my fourth summer in Mississippi and the Tupelo marathon was Labor day. So that meant substantial long runs in July and early/mid-August.
I did 20 miles one Sunday in July. No problem. 10 miles out, ten miles back. Two or three pints of water cached along the way.
I went out the next weekend like a fool and tried to do it again. I made it to the 15 mile point: out 10 and back 5. I can still remember leaning against the bridge, exhausted. I drank a pint, but the game was up. Death march. I made it to 19.8 miles. I COULD NOT jog another step. I quit in disgust and walked the final .2.
That run has stuck with me ever since as a mark not just of idiocy--there was no need for back-to-back 20 milers--but of truly having given my all. No runner in the world wants to put "19.8" in the training log. But I did so, and proudly. I'd squeezed every last drop from that lemon.
Lane10 wrote:
Old coach man, this is the first year I've experienced the apparent drop off in fitness in such a dramatic way.
I am 46 years old, and trained through a couple of summers for my first two marathons which were run at ages 42 (NYC 2014) and 43 (Chicago 2015). The summer of training at age 43 was notably worse than the summer of training at age 42, but I was still hitting good times in my workouts and generally able to handle the workload. Last summer, at age 45, something seemed to change - I felt a little more challenged during workouts and felt like it was taking more days to recover after workouts. My race times also suffered, running in the 16:05-16:10 range compared to the 15:30-15:40 range in prior summers. But once the weather cooled down, things snapped back into place and I was running back in the 15:40 range by Thanksgiving, and setting masters PRs in the 15k and the half-marathon.
I concluded that the heat simply started to have more of an effect all of sudden as I got just a little bit older. I am now training for the Chicago Marathon again in an attempt to get one last PR - but I am terrified of what the summer will hold.
Run at 4:30am. Problem solved.
Good points.
I'm only 34, but am getting used to Columbus heat/humidity. Harder than Cleveland.
We get 90'F days and 70'F nights with high 60s dewpoints. Conversely, our winters are easy. But I fear we are losing our springs and falls. April was cold as hell, then it got hot in May and hasn't really cooled off since. Like 2016. I fear fall will be the same--2 weeks of temperate weather, then nosediving into snow by Halloween.
That said the heat training is helping me lose weight and get faster. 4 months to the Nationwide half! 1:40 or bust.
Lane10 wrote:
Old coach man, this is the first year I've experienced the apparent drop off in fitness in such a dramatic way. End of April 10 miles was covered in 75min. End of May had trouble running 5 miles under 40min. I think it's age and the heat/humidity. The decrement in adaptability to changes in weather, sleep, minor injuries, etc. still comes as something of a surprise after all these years. I like your idea about taking each run as it comes, dropping the ironclad agenda. The long run may have to be tabled for a while as well, per HRE's comment.
What is your schedule?
What was your winter/ spring like?
How consistent are you?
Lots of variables. I'd be interested to know.
Cheers
ocm
KudzuRunner wrote:
Much better run this morning. 8 miles @ 9:21 pace, with average/cumulative HR at 153 (80%). It was slightly warmer and more humid than two days ago, BUT--big difference--it was overcast. No radiant sun pressure at all. And that turns out to be all the difference. I lost 3 pounds in water weight, despite pausing to drink a fair bit. But I felt fine. Every mile was a little faster than the previous mile: 9:56 down to 8:45. Loop course, flat: 1.5 miles around.
This is good stuff.
Try to repeat this effort again later in the week or next week. Then you know you're on a good path.
Find the shade
ocm
Hey KudzuRunner, just writing to say you’re not alone. Misery loves company I guess. I’m about the same age as you and moved down to the Houston area about 20 years ago. This time of year is always tough.
The choice is run in the morning when the average low morning temps are between 78 and 82 deg with 90 to 100% humidity. Or the afternoon when it’s betw 90 to 95 deg and about 50 to 60% humidity, and full sun. Heat index is much higher in the PM . So given that choice I usually start my runs between 5 to 6am.
I’m also experiencing what we call ‘the big summer slow down’ where my pace is 1 to 2 min/mi slower. Can’t go any quicker these days. But like others have said, the suckfest conditions do have benefits once the summer conditions finally subside or you travel to do a race. I call the tough summer conditions my hill training in disguise.
Keep hydrated and don’t forget electrolytes, I use S-Caps.
Currently training for my next mountain 100 miler in early fall where it’ll be cool and dry - can’t wait!!!
Hang in there.
Old Ultra: Houston! That definitely IS worse than north Mississippi. I was there once five or six years back, in late July. Good God! I drove in my old Honda; the air conditioning had gone out just before the trip. I thought I could make it with the windows open and lots of icewater. I did. But wow. Swampish.
I handle the electrolyte problem by slamming down a pint--or, on occasion, a quart--of Gatorade first thing after getting home. Gatorade doesn't call out to me from the supermarket shelves except during the summer, but I trust my body on this one.
Thanks for the tip on S-Caps. I wasn't aware of them. I think I'll try them.
I've been poking around online just now, looking to further educate myself, and found the following article:
What struck me as potentially relevant to the conversation here was the following:
"If you’re out for a leisurely run lasting less than an hour, your electrolyte stores should be adequate without supplementation. “Replacing salt losses becomes more of a concern when you push past the 60-minute mark, particularly if you’re sweating greatly,” says Toker.
Toker is "Jonathan Toker, Ph.D., an organic chemist and elite trail runner who founded the hydration-products company SaltStick."
If I'm running 90 to 120 minutes on a summer Sunday long run, and I'm rehydrating myself with the help of several bottles cached along my running route--something I've done for the past 15 years--should one of those bottles be Gatorade or another sports drink? If I'm doing a loop run in a park that's going to take me 75-80 minutes, should I bring along not a pair of water bottles, but a water bottle and a Gatorade bottle?
And while we're at it: is Gatorade the sport drink of choice for a runner (non-Ultra) doing those sorts of summer runs? Or has another sport drink, readily available, turned out to be the choice of the field? I've defaulted to Gatorade for a long time, perhaps because it's been around for decades, but perhaps there's a better choice.
I've moved on to Pedialyte and various other similar products depending on what's available. Heavier concentrations of electrolytes, which I need for 70-80 minutes a day of aerobic training for the marathon in the Orlando summer.
As a male in my lower 30s, I’m writing to let all of you ‘older’ folks know that us young guys are struggling too. I also live in the south.
Went out for an easy 9 miles last Sunday. Made it through 7 before stopping at a neighborhood pool with a water fountain to cool down. I did finish the run but it was awful and I was totally depleted. Dewpoint was around 70. Temps in the high 70s to low 80s. It was when I got into an area with absolutely no shade that I really started to tank. That direct sunlight, even at 7:00am, is just brutal.
I haven’t figured out any solutions other than running earlier. It is impacting my sleep quite a bit, which then also has adverse effects on my running, especially in these conditions.
As they say, “just keep going”. A shorter run or slower run is not a total loss. A run with a few breaks isn’t a total loss either (though I despise having to stop!).
Thank you for sharing your experience. I feel a little less alone now!
Another great LR conversation. Thanks again to KR for kicking it off.
OCM, you asked about my schedule. No significant down time for over 6 mos. 4 runs per wk/10d -- long (1-2 hours), tempo/cruise intervals, shorter intervals with full recovery, and a general conditioning run. 6 mos ago substituted spin bike for recovery runs on the other 3 days -- low resistance/high cadence, heart rate in range for a general conditioning run, usually for 45 min. Maybe 1 or 2 days off per month, spur of the moment. Going to the bike on recovery days has probably helped with injury prevention. I never get too beat up.
Throughout winter/spring I was outside only for long runs on weekends. Otherwise, it was all treadmill in the basement. This was mainly due to my work schedule (on the job at 6:45). So up at 4:00ish, ablutions/prayer/coffee, workout and on with my day. Staying inside saved me the time it would have taken to layer on/off foul weather gear. Getting enough sleep is a major issue with this routine and every minute counts in the morning.
In April I ran 10 miles in 76 minutes in horrible weather (38 degrees, rain/wind) off this schedule. Thought I was teed up for faster times, but plateaued as described earlier. After some days of glum thoughts (all that work and I can't crack 8:00/m), I decided to regroup. The fitness hasn't gone away, it's just hiding somewhere at the moment. The weather has changed (what started this whole conversation), I'm off the treadmill and on the roads/trails (more pounding on the legs), and I was overly optimistic (not for the first time) about the progression in performance I could expect. I must also say that the early morning training is the most tenuous point of the whole routine. I've been doing it for years and it's easy to get behind on sleep and sabotage the whole thing.
Probably more info than you cared for, ocm, but there you have it. It's my story and I'm sticking to it!
The RRCA offers the following tips. They all make sense, but one is absolutely key, I've found: prehydrate. Suck down at least one good glass of water (8-10 oz.) before you leave the house. I plan to experiment with more substantial prehydrating. This makes a real difference. My general rule on long runs is to take water (usually 12-16 oz) for the first time at the 5-mile point, then take another 12-14 oz at the 7 mile point. Then nothing else. That works just fine in cooler seasons, but it does NOT work in the summer. Prehydration gives your body something to work with. And on shorter runs, I want some water no later than 30 minutes in. (That 5-mile point is 46-48 minutes for me; too late in the summer.)
Here's the RRCA list of suggestions:
Hot Weather Running Tips
The Road Runners Club of America wants to remind the running community about the importance of following our hot weather running tips. Running in the heat of summer can be dangerous if proper precautions and preparations are not followed.
Avoid dehydration! You can lose between 6 and 12 oz. of fluid for every 20 minutes of running. Therefore it is important to pre-hydrate (10–15 oz. of fluid 10 to 15 minutes prior to running) and drink fluids every 20–30 minutes along your running route. To determine if you are hydrating properly, weigh yourself before and after running. You should have drunk one pint of fluid for every pound you’re missing. Indications that you are running while dehydrated are a persistent elevated pulse after finishing your run and dark yellow urine. Keep in mind that thirst is not an adequate indicator of dehydration.
Visit Gatorade Endurance’s site. You will find great tools for developing a hydration strategy.
Avoid running outside if the heat is above 98.6 degrees and the humidity is above 70-80%. While running, the body temperature is regulated by the process of sweat evaporating off of the skin. If the humidity in the air is so high that it prevents the process of evaporation of sweat from the skin, you can quickly overheat and literally cook your insides from an elevated body temperature. Check your local weather and humidity level.
When running, if you become dizzy, nauseated, have the chills, or cease to sweat…. STOP RUNNING, find shade, and drink water or a fluid replacement drink such as Gatorade Endurance. If you do not feel better, get help. Heatstroke occurs when the body fails to regulate its own temperature, and the body temperature continues to rise. Symptoms of heatstroke include mental changes (such as confusion, delirium, or unconsciousness) and skin that is red, hot, and dry, even under the armpits. Heatstroke is a life-threatening medical emergency, requiring emergency medical treatment.
Run in the shade whenever possible and avoid direct sunlight and blacktop. When you are going to be exposed to the intense summer rays of the sun, apply at least 15 spf sunscreen and wear protective eyewear that filters out UVA and UVB rays.
Consider wearing a visor that will shade your eyes and skin but will allow heat to transfer off the top of your head.
If you have heart or respiratory problems or you are on any medications, consult your doctor about running in the heat. In some cases it may be in your best interests to run indoors. If you have a history of heatstroke/illness, run with extreme caution.
Children should run in the morning or late afternoon hours, but should avoid the peak heat of the day to prevent heat related illnesses. It is especially important to keep children hydrated while running and playing outdoors in the heat.
Do wear light colored breathable clothing. Do not wear long sleeves or long pants or sweat suits. Purposefully running in sweat suits hot days to lose water weight is dangerous!
Plan your route so you can refill water bottles or find drinking fountains. City parks, local merchants, and restaurants are all good points to incorporate on your route during hot weather running. Be sure to tell someone where you are running how long you think you will gone, and carry identification.
Stay hydrated, cool, and safe this summer!
Am I the only one who isn't adversely affected by the heat? I usually feel like crap later in the day after a super hard run, but the run itself always feels great and I'm always able to hit my paces. Maybe it's because I ran in a sweaty gym all winter...
108 degrees, dew point of 39. It's definitely not nearly as sticky in the desert sun but saguaros and telephone poles don't offer much shade. I'm only 40 but this summer is killing me already. But yes, once the cooler temps return its magic time.
Fairly representative day today in my plan to make it through the summer marathon training:
21 minutes on the elliptical, followed immediately by 3.75 miles on the treadmill, followed immediately by 4.25 miles outside for roughly 77 minutes of aerobic activity, with the majority of it being inside in air conditioning and access to water.
Took in a 16 ounce Body Armour electrolyte during the indoor portion and two salt/electrolyte capsules at the start.
Will have 16-32 ounces of Pedialyte to close out the night.
I'll probably have to pass a kidney stone come October, but as long as it is after my marathon, I'd take it.
I was up at 5 and running by 6. Not fun. I'm close to calling it quits. I wanted to do 12-13, but quickly dialed back. Conditions from start to finish were stable: a very slight breeze, swampy, overcast enough that sun pressure wasn't a problem. But 77 degrees is as warm as it ever gets at 6 AM around here, and 89% humidity combined with that for a 73.4% dewpoint:
6:15 AM 77.0 °F - 73.4 °F 89% 29.96 in 10.0 mi SW 8.1 mph - N/A Scattered Clouds
6:35 AM 77.0 °F - 73.4 °F 89% 29.97 in 9.0 mi Variable 4.6 mph - N/A Clear
6:55 AM 77.0 °F - 73.4 °F 89% 29.97 in 10.0 mi Variable 6.9 mph - N/A Clear
7:15 AM 77.0 °F - 73.4 °F 89% 29.98 in 10.0 mi SW 5.8 mph 11.5 mph N/A Clear
7:35 AM 77.0 °F - 73.4 °F 89% 29.99 in 9.0 mi Variable 4.6 mph - N/A Clear
7:55 AM 77.0 °F - 73.4 °F 89% 30.00 in 10.0 mi WSW 5.8 mph 11.5 mph N/A Thunderstorm Partly Cloudy
I did 10 miles at 10:22 pace. Just a slow, thankless, drippy slog.