yobro wrote:
Actually, pacing is allowed by the opposite gender in mixed events, the resultant times do not count for qualifying. BUT there's also an exception to this rule in........ you guessed it, the 10k!
I’m reading the rule book now and see no such exception? Can anyone point out the rule that makes this legal? The assistance section of rule 4, page 63 of the 2017-18 XC/Track D1 rule book seems to say this would be illegal...I’m a D1 coach and have never heard of any 10k exception...
Clarification: I know that mixed gender 10K races are legal under rule 4, article 12, but mixed gender pacing would still be illegal.
Wow, just looked into this a little more...
McClain and Donlea were the two USF men entered. Both are sub 15 guys and McClain has run 30:52 - so if either of these guys ran anywhere near those two 34 minute ladies, it would seem like it would be pretty obvious that they were pacing. I wasn’t at the meet, but that’s terrible if the officials allowed that to happen.
One more item as I continue to blow up this thread - those women’s marks are not allowable anyway under Rule 4, article 3 that states “a minimum of two different member institutions shall be represented in each event”.
Regardless of whether there is a regulatory loophole allowing men to pace women at the NCAA level, this is a terrible display of sportsmanship. Helen could have easily entered athletes at Payton Jordan to compete, or time trial if preferred, with fellow collegiate women.
It’s no wonder track and field can not capture public interest with stunts like these. Sad to see.
I don’t understand why it’s even on the TFRRS list if there was only one school in the event?
http://speedendurance.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/David-Rudisha-London-2012_thumb.jpgGimmeABreakY'all wrote:
All the WRs are paced.
Really? Where are the male pacers in the women’s 800m then? This is a clear violation of multiple NCAA rules.
Why is no one talking about this? This thread should have 100 pages by now. We are cool with USF abusing the rules and taking two spots at first rounds from deserving athletes??
Bro, you ever heard of Asbel Kiprop? You think these girls cheating is anywhere near as big of a deal?
Who are the two ladies they would be taking spots from?
100 pages?! wrote:
Bro, you ever heard of Asbel Kiprop? You think these girls cheating is anywhere near as big of a deal?
Who are the two ladies they would be taking spots from?
Don't know yet, because in D1 the top 48 in each event make the First Round. So if it were to end today, Caitlin Klopfer of Tulsa and Laura Nelson of South Dakota would get left out in favor of the two girls USF qualified using male pacers. It might not end up affecting those girls after this weekend and next weekend's meet, but it will almost certainly affect two athletes - leaving two athletes home in favor of two athletes who qualified using illegal tactics in a race that shouldn't count anyway since there was only team represented.
At my school this would be grounds for possibly letting the coach go. Anyone who knowingly breaks NCAA rules usually at least gets suspended.
But why is it on there? wrote:
I don’t understand why it’s even on the TFRRS list if there was only one school in the event?
Even if they were not pacing I agree with this.
Spirit of the law wrote:
Regardless of whether there is a regulatory loophole allowing men to pace women at the NCAA level, this is a terrible display of sportsmanship. Helen could have easily entered athletes at Payton Jordan to compete, or time trial if preferred, with fellow collegiate women.
It’s no wonder track and field can not capture public interest with stunts like these. Sad to see.
False, she would have not "easily" been able to put both athletes into Payton Jordan. Charlotte Taylor would have gotten in, but Pyzik never ran a track 10k before and in case you haven't noticed, there was only one collegiate athlete in the 10k field. I think she may have been a pacer since she ran the 1500 earlier that day.
So would Helen have easily gotten her in? Of course not. You think they just let anyone into Payton Jordan? It's essentially 75% professional athletes, give or take.
running commenter wrote:
Spirit of the law wrote:
Regardless of whether there is a regulatory loophole allowing men to pace women at the NCAA level, this is a terrible display of sportsmanship. Helen could have easily entered athletes at Payton Jordan to compete, or time trial if preferred, with fellow collegiate women.
It’s no wonder track and field can not capture public interest with stunts like these. Sad to see.
False, she would have not "easily" been able to put both athletes into Payton Jordan. Charlotte Taylor would have gotten in, but Pyzik never ran a track 10k before and in case you haven't noticed, there was only one collegiate athlete in the 10k field. I think she may have been a pacer since she ran the 1500 earlier that day.
So would Helen have easily gotten her in? Of course not. You think they just let anyone into Payton Jordan? It's essentially 75% professional athletes, give or take.
Yeah okay but I’m pretty sure she could’ve found a legitimate 10k throughout the season to put them in instead of blatantly skirting the rules. Surely the NCAA is going to remove those marks as there must be at least two teams in an event to count.
running commenter wrote:
Spirit of the law wrote:
Regardless of whether there is a regulatory loophole allowing men to pace women at the NCAA level, this is a terrible display of sportsmanship. Helen could have easily entered athletes at Payton Jordan to compete, or time trial if preferred, with fellow collegiate women.
It’s no wonder track and field can not capture public interest with stunts like these. Sad to see.
False, she would have not "easily" been able to put both athletes into Payton Jordan. Charlotte Taylor would have gotten in, but Pyzik never ran a track 10k before and in case you haven't noticed, there was only one collegiate athlete in the 10k field. I think she may have been a pacer since she ran the 1500 earlier that day.
So would Helen have easily gotten her in? Of course not. You think they just let anyone into Payton Jordan? It's essentially 75% professional athletes, give or take.
Not this year. Did you even look at the start lost and then the results? The Payton 10,000 was a B race this year with very few competitors.
You want us to believe it would have been harder to gain entry for two high caliber, local athletes at Payton than it was to have Cal hold a farcical event for the purpose of qualifying wih male pacers? Dont kid yourself.
Not only did both athletes comfortably run NCAA first round times, but they didnt have to race hard in the process like they might have in an actual competitive event.
Get rid of gender categories in Track and Field completely and you will have solved this problem. Without gender categories anyone can pace anyone else in a race and no one will be upset. You will also have resolved the situation for people like Caster Semenya to boot.
get rid of genders in T and F wrote:
Get rid of gender categories in Track and Field completely and you will have solved this problem. Without gender categories anyone can pace anyone else in a race and no one will be upset. You will also have resolved the situation for people like Caster Semenya to boot.
Even if you did that, USF was still the only school in the race, so it still shouldn’t count - by rule.
another point wrote:
At my school this would be grounds for possibly letting the coach go. Anyone who knowingly breaks NCAA rules usually at least gets suspended.
You guys realize the rule about needing to have two institutions represented is only to count the event towards the meet event minimum to count as a qualifying meet...not an NCAA qualifying time. I see no breaking of rules.
That’s not true at all. In order to count as an NCAA recognized event, more than one institution must be represented.
