Should Killian Jornet be considered the greatest runner in the world currently?

LMAO. Is narcissist Killian responsible for creating these types of posts here? Or does he really have fanboys that delusional?

BrokenLeg wrote:

Since he currently is wearing a cast on his leg......no.

Exactly what I was thinking. What's the time scale of "currently"?

Just realized you're an idiot speaking out of your arse. Clearly you don't know how to read, use Google or have never been to the world's to watch or run. The gain is usually between 3300 to 4500 over 10k. I'd say that's mountain. Also these Africans don't run mountains for contracts, they run for money. There is no money in ultras. Kilian made money by becoming a sensation and then was offered huge contract but he won little money in actual races in ultra distance. Don't be one of those idiots who just speaks on what they see or hear on social media, do some reading first. We have enough idiots online posting as misinformed fanboys

I've run against Kilian a couple of times and I've placed as high as Top 40 at the USA XC Championships. I think Kilian would finish in the bottom 5% at the World XC Champs, but of course he would never be able to make the Spanish National team selected for World XC. He's amazingly strong on mountains, but not very fast on flats at all. I'd peg him at a 15:00 for 5000m, but gets exponentially better as the distance goes up. Probably a 1:07:30/2:25:00 guy, if not slower in the half.

bwakem wrote:

Where do you think he would finish in the World XC Champs?

Probably meant a 1000 meters, which is not that much when you compare to 10000-15000 meter gains of some of the major events...over much more difficult terrain. Top class runners are awesome in what they specialize in but didnt Jakob Ingebrigtsen try an easier mt race last year and almost die?

Again, do research. 1000 meters over 6 miles is steeper than most ultras you are mentioning where they may gain 10,000 meters but over 100 miles. You know how to do fraction right? The shorter race is much steeper and also rugged

For comparison: Hardrock 100 is considered one of the more steep 100s.

It gains 330 feet per mile. Also not competitive, not many top contenders, has lottery.

2016 World Mountain Running gained 619 feet per mile. Granted it was uphill I believe mostly. The best mountain runners line up, no lottery to protect the top guys no favorites as there are a slew of top contenders.

2017 World Mountain champs gained 355 per mile up and down the mountain twice.

You tell me which is steeper and more competitive?

We can't say he's the 'greatest' general 'runner' (definition?), but for all-around mountain/ultra, likely. If the Africans could evolve their short mtn running skill to all mtn/ultra distances (up to 100 miles), maybe they'd top the those leaderboards. Inclement weather, nutrition, stomach composure, reaction to prolonged exertion to altitude in some cases, & most importantly, technical running (especially downhill) are all required to prevail at many mountain/ultras -- Kilian is a master of these.

I'll tell ya, he's no Chris Barnes (bowler) or Don Bradman (cricket) when it comes to the worlds greatest athlete. You ultra / trail guys are so delusional. You compete in an obscure sport that 99.99% of the population neither cares to compete in or even follow. Just because someone is the best at beating the 0.00001% of the world's population that actually competes in a given sport does not make them the world's greatest athlete. If you ask 100 people on the street who Killian is, most of them will say something like, "I like his beer, do they still make it". Here is a better idea. Go make up your own sport / event (you know, kind of like baseketball) and then you can proclaim that you are the best in the world at it and ergo, you are then the world's greatest athlete.

He ran one road half marathon in the past year in 1:30:52. Obviously not a world class time by any means on a flat course.

Oh wait, it wasn't flat. The course gained 5,000 feet throughout the course of the race (~380ft/mile) and he still ran sub 7:00 pace. Strava puts the Grade Adjusted Pace at 5:06. Though that should be taken with a grain of salt because it's just extrapolating his result, it still indicates that he is very fit and capable of running fast on roads.

https://www.strava.com/activities/1029689364

He also broke 10:00 for 2 miles during miles 30 and 31 at UTMB. It was during a steep downhill section, but still impressive nonetheless, especially when you consider that he had 70 more miles to go.

https://www.strava.com/activities/1165484495

Also, no one is talking about how he dislocated his shoulder at Hardrock at mile 13 and still won over Mike Foote (24 hour vertical gain world record holder ; 61,400 ft) and Joe Grant (human powered 14er's record holder: 31 days 8 hours).

Francois D'Haene may be one of the only people who could really hang with and beat Killian (as seen at UTMB), but he still destroyed the like of Jim Walmsley there who has pretty good track PRs (8:03, 13:52, 29:08).

If you put Killian on the roads with Kipchoge, he will get demolished. If you put him in the mountains on a technical 100 mile course with 10,000 meters of gain, Killian will win. People are built differently and excel in different disciplines which makes comparing them difficult. Regardless of what he can do compared to East African track stars, he is still a world class athlete for his chosen events.

Mt Runners wrote:

Don't know about that. The only courses the Africans can win on are on roads/smooth trails. So not really off road. In any case, the races that the "World Mountain Running Championships" are done on beautiful, easy trails and only 6-7 miles!! Thats a far cry from what the real mountain run is. What is it maybe a 1,000 foot vertical gain overall? Really?

Africans have been doing trails for 20-30 years in Europe. If they could have snapped up a sponsorship deal by winning a few , surely they would have by now. You think they wouldn't want to have $300k sponsorship deals that Jornet has? Gimme a break. They'll never amount to anything in races like the UTMB.

I think Jornet is amazing, but just to clarify a few things:

- No, as someone else pointed out, World Mountain Running is more like 1,000-1,200 meters, not feet (for the uphill year). It's steep, and the trails are sometimes pretty technical. You can knock it because it's very short relative to a 100-miler (which of course it is), but to argue that it's not steep or technical suggests you've never been there.

- The harsh reality is that an East African runner is unlikely to garner the sponsorship support that Jornet has. Part of that is just parochial: companies want to sponsor athletes who come from the places where their customers are. Of course, Jornet has a following around the world (as do amazing East African runners like Eliud Kipchoge). But they're pretty rare individuals. If you're an up-and-coming runner from Kenya, your wisest option is to hit the roads, where you can count on picking up a few hundred dollars every weekend and a few thousand when you get a bit faster or lucky, rather than hit the MUT scene where you can race less frequently and earn basically no money in the hopes of eventually becoming a global sensation like Jornet. If money (as a livelihood rather than a hobby) is your goal, the roads are still the smartest place to be (for now, at least, and certainly for East Africans).

Killian is an amazing athlete in the mountains. I've been in several mountain races with him the past 5 years and I've never even come close to beating him. He somehow came off Everest and totally kicked our butts at the Mont Blanc Marathon (which does have a more runnable first half were guys like Max King, Andy Wacker and I were dropping 5:30s...that marathon still has 10,000' of climbing though!). But I've seen others beat him in races (Luis Alberto, Francois, Dakota Jones, Rob Krar etc.) . He is still very beatable and falters at times.

In 2013 and 2014 I finished 2nd in the world to him in the "Sky Running World Series." Thing is, there honestly wasn't very much competition as there wasn't much prize money and international travel to races was a financial barrier to entry. Not that many people can really specialize in 30km-60km super technical mountain runs. I think the new Golden Trail Series looks much more promising this year.

I also wouldn't use Stava GAP as an accurate ability to show "flat running" potential. If we went by GAP guys like Joe Gray and myself should be able to hold 4:40/mile pace for a half marathon according to our climbing data from Mt. WA. Now Joe can run a pretty fast half (1:03ish I think?). but GAP looks better when you are a good climber and it doesn't directly translate to "flat speed equivelants"

Finally, no way Killian went sub 5-min miles at UTMB from 30-31. I've raced section a couple times (it's in the dark).

You are looking at 4-min KM splits (not mile splits) in that data you linked. At best there are some sub 6-min miles at UTMB though...but not sub 5.

Killian is killin it wrote:

Or simply the greatest athlete? Think about it. The world is 99.99% off road. This is Killian terrain!! So basically, he can leave everyone else on the planet in the dust other than when doing an all out non-stop run on a road...which he hates.

Never heard of him.

Umguessagain wrote:

Again, do research. 1000 meters over 6 miles is steeper than most ultras you are mentioning where they may gain 10,000 meters but over 100 miles. You know how to do fraction right? The shorter race is much steeper and also rugged

For comparison: Hardrock 100 is considered one of the more steep 100s.

It gains 330 feet per mile. Also not competitive, not many top contenders, has lottery.

2016 World Mountain Running gained 619 feet per mile. Granted it was uphill I believe mostly. The best mountain runners line up, no lottery to protect the top guys no favorites as there are a slew of top contenders.

2017 World Mountain champs gained 355 per mile up and down the mountain twice.

You tell me which is steeper and more competitive?

Your whole spiel is nonsense. Why are you comparing two completely different types of events? Are you going to compare 400 hurdlers to marathon runners next?

Don't even talk about steeper. Or rugged. That's just silly.

Also, the best mountain runners line up to do the World Mountain Running thing? No. I don't see Killian or D'haene lining up there. Nor guys like Krar. The best mountain runners according to only you line up there. I don't think that you get that road racing types will be much more comfortable and built for the WMR. Not the real mountain races.

This is the most rugged part of World Mountain running. A steep grassy knoll. I can do this easily over 6 miles. What a joke.

Check out the amount of roads they run on as well. Half of it is a road race.

http://www.eastafro.com/2017/08/06/eritrean-petro-mamu-wins-world-mountain-running-championship-in-premana/

Krar is one of the best? Get real. He did compete for Canada at the world mountain running champs and also at the continental champs for Canada and got absolutely destroyed by the likes of Joe Gray and also Dave Le Porho. Not saying the best "mountain" runners run the world champs but the best all around athletes for an off road championships besides XC, run the world mountain champs. Look at the level of athletes there, Olympians, many sub 29 10k guys, many sub 2:20 guys. Ultras don't bring the best of the best out and neither does skyracing which Kilian typically does. He stays there mostly because he can win. Notice as Sage mentions skyracing is not competitive like world champs or road racing because of lack of money and also talent and ability needed to be competitive. Imagine if Sage and Gray show up to the race Kilian did in Norway at half marathon. They would have obliterated him. I believe USA runner Gray did crush Kilian in Norway at skala opp. Hiked this mountain in 10' and it's rugged, steep and from results page looks to be competitive every year. Also USA runner Max King has done worlds, is he also not real mnt runne? Marco de Gasperi was also there many times, is he not real mnt guy? Petro Mamu also, is he real?

Usain Bolt is obviously the best. The losers that can't beat him run distance races at a far slower pace just to try and win something. Guys like mo Farah, the Kimetto guy who can't even finish 26 miles anymore and killian. They are all really slow compared to the Bolt.

Great perspective Sage. True that Strava GAP can't translate to the road! Specifically in the case of mountain style training not delivering the sharpness needed to kill it for a road event.

bwakem wrote:

Killian is killin it wrote:

Or simply the greatest athlete? Think about it. The world is 99.99% off road. This is Killian terrain!!

Where do you think he would finish in the World XC Champs?

DFL. I have a ton of respect for the guy, but I'd assume there are high school xc runners who could beat him. It's just not his thing. Some people just get better when things get vertical and the conditions turn to shite.

Killian is killin it wrote:

Or simply the greatest athlete? .

Ummm ever heard of Jordan Hasay?