I was told that low drop shoes would improve your running economy and make you faster. I run mostly in Kinvara and Hoka Cliftons which are 4-5mm drop shoes. If I want to be faster should I wear something like the Adios Boost (10mm drop)?
I was told that low drop shoes would improve your running economy and make you faster. I run mostly in Kinvara and Hoka Cliftons which are 4-5mm drop shoes. If I want to be faster should I wear something like the Adios Boost (10mm drop)?
What's the deal with that? wrote:
I was told that low drop shoes would improve your running economy and make you faster. I run mostly in Kinvara and Hoka Cliftons which are 4-5mm drop shoes. If I want to be faster should I wear something like the Adios Boost (10mm drop)?
Training makes you faster, not shoe drop.
What's the deal with that? wrote:
I was told that low drop shoes would improve your running economy and make you faster. I run mostly in Kinvara and Hoka Cliftons which are 4-5mm drop shoes. If I want to be faster should I wear something like the Adios Boost (10mm drop)?
0/10.
doesn't it mess with your form though? I don't want to heel strike again.
what about my form? wrote:
doesn't it mess with your form though? I don't want to heel strike again.
it has nothing to do with the drop. Most people are overstriding who are heel striking. If they paid attention to cadence it would make a big difference.
what about my form? wrote:
doesn't it mess with your form though? I don't want to heel strike again.
What does any of this mean? Heelstriking is fine.
what about my form? wrote:
doesn't it mess with your form though? I don't want to heel strike again.
What you want in terms of running form is irrelevant. Your body optimizes your gait depending on your present speed, terrain, neuromuscular fatigue, strength, flexibility etc. If you heelstrike naturally, that is the fastest version of yourself. The only way to change that is to change yourself. But if you're aiming to change yourself solely for the purposes of being a midfoot striker, then you're missing the point. Change yourself to be faster, don't worry about strike pattern.
I prefer to run in 10mm drop racing flats. I am a midfoot striker, gait lab and shoe wear pattern "verified". A lot of people make proclamations about what type of foot contact they do, but most people are wrong (there was a study on this, don't have time to find right now). Chances are, you probably aren't a midfoot/forefoot striker, so another reason to not worry about it and just buy the shoes that you find comfy.
troll feeding wrote:
what about my form? wrote:
doesn't it mess with your form though? I don't want to heel strike again.
What you want in terms of running form is irrelevant. Your body optimizes your gait depending on your present speed, terrain, neuromuscular fatigue, strength, flexibility etc. If you heelstrike naturally, that is the fastest version of yourself. The only way to change that is to change yourself. But if you're aiming to change yourself solely for the purposes of being a midfoot striker, then you're missing the point. Change yourself to be faster, don't worry about strike pattern.
I prefer to run in 10mm drop racing flats. I am a midfoot striker, gait lab and shoe wear pattern "verified". A lot of people make proclamations about what type of foot contact they do, but most people are wrong (there was a study on this, don't have time to find right now). Chances are, you probably aren't a midfoot/forefoot striker, so another reason to not worry about it and just buy the shoes that you find comfy.
Great post.
Thanks friend wrote:
troll feeding wrote:
What you want in terms of running form is irrelevant. Your body optimizes your gait depending on your present speed, terrain, neuromuscular fatigue, strength, flexibility etc. If you heelstrike naturally, that is the fastest version of yourself. The only way to change that is to change yourself. But if you're aiming to change yourself solely for the purposes of being a midfoot striker, then you're missing the point. Change yourself to be faster, don't worry about strike pattern.
I prefer to run in 10mm drop racing flats. I am a midfoot striker, gait lab and shoe wear pattern "verified". A lot of people make proclamations about what type of foot contact they do, but most people are wrong (there was a study on this, don't have time to find right now). Chances are, you probably aren't a midfoot/forefoot striker, so another reason to not worry about it and just buy the shoes that you find comfy.
Great post.
Not really. That's assuming that "what about my form" is wrong about 10 mm heel rise shoes messing with his/her form. That is actually be the case for many runners. I know it's the case for me. I land flat (midfoot), slightly biased to the front mostly, where on the way down, my feet are rotating from toe up to foot level just as footstrike occurs (seen on slo-mo video). When I try running in higher heeled shoes, the impulse of the initial footstrike come up the heel because it sticking out 10 mm lower when my foot is level inside the shoe. But I'm used to the impulse of the initial footstrike coming from the middle or front. So that throws me off enough that I can't run smoothly. Meaning I'm feeling awkward going even 7-9 minute miles, while I can knock off 4-5 minute pace smoothly in 0-5 mm shoes.
Could I get accustomed to higher heeled shoes? Maybe, I used to run in them for most of my first 20 years of running. But why should I, when I have felt better form-wise running in 0-5 mm offset shoes as soon as I tried them? One notable area of difference is that I can really rock downhills a lot faster (sub-5 pace for miles) than even my younger, faster self, who was not great on trail downhills but could do sub-5 pace for 6 mile flat tempos.
My hips and backside get messed up when I’ve tried zero drop shoes and even 4mm. I go back to 8-10mm heel and the problems go away. Not everyone can handle zero drop or low drop heels. It’s better if a company has a variety of heel drops and styles rather than cornering and limiting themself like Altra and Hoka.
zzzz wrote:
Meaning I'm feeling awkward going even 7-9 minute miles, while I can knock off 4-5 minute pace smoothly in 0-5 mm shoes.
.
Yeah, OK.
Humphley Braggart wrote:
zzzz wrote:
Meaning I'm feeling awkward going even 7-9 minute miles, while I can knock off 4-5 minute pace smoothly in 0-5 mm shoes.
.
Yeah, OK.
You'd understand if your stride was similar. And if you're being critical of the 4-5 minute pace, that would be referring to things like strides, sprints, downhills, etc. I just can't do them smoothly in the old shoes that I still have that have higher heels.
I'll add that the heel rise isn't the only factor. I get the same feeling of the heel being in the way in some lower shoes, like the NB Zante and an Icebug that I had, both 4 mm rise. The heel of someone's foot is about 5 cm/2 in. in front of the back edge of the shoe. If there isn't enough bevel/upward taper at back end of the shoe, I might feel the initial impulse rearwards from the bottom of my heel, which is strange feeling for someone accustomed to a flat landing. On the other hand, if there is a large bevel/upward taper in the heel of a higher heel rise shoe, I can manage in them. I can't always tell by looking or the specs, but I can tell when I run in them.
zzzz wrote:
Humphley Braggart wrote:
Yeah, OK.
You'd understand if your stride was similar. And if you're being critical of the 4-5 minute pace, that would be referring to things like strides, sprints, downhills, etc. I just can't do them smoothly in the old shoes that I still have that have higher heels.
I'll add that the heel rise isn't the only factor. I get the same feeling of the heel being in the way in some lower shoes, like the NB Zante and an Icebug that I had, both 4 mm rise. The heel of someone's foot is about 5 cm/2 in. in front of the back edge of the shoe. If there isn't enough bevel/upward taper at back end of the shoe, I might feel the initial impulse rearwards from the bottom of my heel, which is strange feeling for someone accustomed to a flat landing. On the other hand, if there is a large bevel/upward taper in the heel of a higher heel rise shoe, I can manage in them. I can't always tell by looking or the specs, but I can tell when I run in them.
I agree. I've been running in 0-4 mm drop shoes for years. I run pretty far up on my forefoot. Last year when it was time for now shoes, I took a plunge and bought shoes with an 8mm drop. The drop was so high, it threw off my normal stride and landing as it seemed to force my heel to touch first. For someone who has run in low drop shoes, switching to high drop shoes can absolutely throw off your running economy. Although, I don't think this was necessarily the question at hand.
As for the OP, switching to a shoe with low drop may not make you faster, but may throw off your running economy; at least initially. The assumption you're making is that a low drop shoe would promote a forefoot strike, which is seen as 'ideal', and improve your running economy. The transition to forefoot striking is a slow one; simply throwing on some low drop shoes won't improve your speed. Improving your economy can, however, help to combat injuries associated with heel striking.
ffe wrote:
zzzz wrote:
You'd understand if your stride was similar. And if you're being critical of the 4-5 minute pace, that would be referring to things like strides, sprints, downhills, etc. I just can't do them smoothly in the old shoes that I still have that have higher heels.
I'll add that the heel rise isn't the only factor. I get the same feeling of the heel being in the way in some lower shoes, like the NB Zante and an Icebug that I had, both 4 mm rise. The heel of someone's foot is about 5 cm/2 in. in front of the back edge of the shoe. If there isn't enough bevel/upward taper at back end of the shoe, I might feel the initial impulse rearwards from the bottom of my heel, which is strange feeling for someone accustomed to a flat landing. On the other hand, if there is a large bevel/upward taper in the heel of a higher heel rise shoe, I can manage in them. I can't always tell by looking or the specs, but I can tell when I run in them.
I agree. I've been running in 0-4 mm drop shoes for years. I run pretty far up on my forefoot. Last year when it was time for now shoes, I took a plunge and bought shoes with an 8mm drop. The drop was so high, it threw off my normal stride and landing as it seemed to force my heel to touch first. For someone who has run in low drop shoes, switching to high drop shoes can absolutely throw off your running economy. Although, I don't think this was necessarily the question at hand.
As for the OP, switching to a shoe with low drop may not make you faster, but may throw off your running economy; at least initially. The assumption you're making is that a low drop shoe would promote a forefoot strike, which is seen as 'ideal', and improve your running economy. The transition to forefoot striking is a slow one; simply throwing on some low drop shoes won't improve your speed. Improving your economy can, however, help to combat injuries associated with heel striking.
That's laughable if you think it's the shoes making you foot strike. Elites are on Adios Boosts or similar with 11mm. They have been toe striking since they started running and there never ever raced in Altra shoes or other trail jogger shoes. Fast pace? Someone mentioned 4 - 5 minute pace like there both similar to each other. Yeah, right. Like you ever see slow-ass Altra wearing joggers hitting 4:20 pace. Ever.
Pretenda-Fast wrote:
ffe wrote:
I agree. I've been running in 0-4 mm drop shoes for years. I run pretty far up on my forefoot. Last year when it was time for now shoes, I took a plunge and bought shoes with an 8mm drop. The drop was so high, it threw off my normal stride and landing as it seemed to force my heel to touch first. For someone who has run in low drop shoes, switching to high drop shoes can absolutely throw off your running economy. Although, I don't think this was necessarily the question at hand.
As for the OP, switching to a shoe with low drop may not make you faster, but may throw off your running economy; at least initially. The assumption you're making is that a low drop shoe would promote a forefoot strike, which is seen as 'ideal', and improve your running economy. The transition to forefoot striking is a slow one; simply throwing on some low drop shoes won't improve your speed. Improving your economy can, however, help to combat injuries associated with heel striking.
That's laughable if you think it's the shoes making you foot strike. Elites are on Adios Boosts or similar with 11mm. They have been toe striking since they started running and there never ever raced in Altra shoes or other trail jogger shoes. Fast pace? Someone mentioned 4 - 5 minute pace like there both similar to each other. Yeah, right. Like you ever see slow-ass Altra wearing joggers hitting 4:20 pace. Ever.
Agreed.. lol.
That is just a ridiculous concept. It's like OP thinks that putting on a pair of Adidas magically rewires his/her entire stride? Sorry, but that is just absurd.
Agreed12 wrote:
Pretenda-Fast wrote:
That's laughable if you think it's the shoes making you foot strike. Elites are on Adios Boosts or similar with 11mm. They have been toe striking since they started running and there never ever raced in Altra shoes or other trail jogger shoes. Fast pace? Someone mentioned 4 - 5 minute pace like there both similar to each other. Yeah, right. Like you ever see slow-ass Altra wearing joggers hitting 4:20 pace. Ever.
Agreed.. lol.
That is just a ridiculous concept. It's like OP thinks that putting on a pair of Adidas magically rewires his/her entire stride? Sorry, but that is just absurd.
That's not what I'm saying. I want to do marathons and run them well. I usually run in hoka cliftons and kinvaras, but when I look at people who are GREAT at marathons they seem to run in 10mm drop shoes.
It was mentioned earlier in the thread that you don't see people winning marathons in Altras. I've also thought about this, online people rave about Altras, but if they're so great why is no one elite wearing them?
I'm wondering if there is something I'm missing. Would a 10mm shoe help calf strain over a marathon? I get it that everyone is different, but I don't see anyone wearing high mm shoes.
Pretenda-Fast wrote:
ffe wrote:
I agree. I've been running in 0-4 mm drop shoes for years. I run pretty far up on my forefoot. Last year when it was time for now shoes, I took a plunge and bought shoes with an 8mm drop. The drop was so high, it threw off my normal stride and landing as it seemed to force my heel to touch first. For someone who has run in low drop shoes, switching to high drop shoes can absolutely throw off your running economy. Although, I don't think this was necessarily the question at hand.
As for the OP, switching to a shoe with low drop may not make you faster, but may throw off your running economy; at least initially. The assumption you're making is that a low drop shoe would promote a forefoot strike, which is seen as 'ideal', and improve your running economy. The transition to forefoot striking is a slow one; simply throwing on some low drop shoes won't improve your speed. Improving your economy can, however, help to combat injuries associated with heel striking.
That's laughable if you think it's the shoes making you foot strike. Elites are on Adios Boosts or similar with 11mm. They have been toe striking since they started running and there never ever raced in Altra shoes or other trail jogger shoes. Fast pace? Someone mentioned 4 - 5 minute pace like there both similar to each other. Yeah, right. Like you ever see slow-ass Altra wearing joggers hitting 4:20 pace. Ever.
dude on my team runs 4:30 /2:06 and wears altras.
epicTCK wrote:
dude on my team runs 4:30 /2:06 and wears altras.
But everyone ran a 4:30 mile in high school
sage is elite and he wears low drop hokas. Also the 50k world record was just broken with low drop hokas!
Heel drops should not be talked about as objectively better at one number for all people. Each person is different and this isn't just lip service. We each had a different childhood experience of how much time we spent in shoes versus barefoot, have our own history of activity, and own history of injury. If you spent a lot of time barefoot or in low drop growing up, then you can probably handle a low drop fine. If you were in heeled shoes much of your childhood, then you'll probably tear your achilles or pull a calf muscle trying to run in low drop. And data shows that by age 30 most distance runners (Africans included) become more susceptible to achilles/calf injury. To be clear the kind of heel drop you can handle depends on the elasticity in your achilles tendon and the surrounding muscle, which is pretty well set for life by the time you are adult enough to be reading this message board.