Bringing it on home to a BQ - final weeks advice?

You are so much superior to your goal time that I think you really need to focus on staying healthy. These MP runs are rather epic and not necessary. Back them down to 13 miles or less. I think 10 miles is A okay. If you want to do more, maybe switch your 3x3 miles to something like 4x3 miles and at marathon effort (not pace, because pace changes by day depending on how you feel). Breaking the run up like that gives your legs time to recover or else alert you to potential injury.

I followed training similar to yours where I did some medium length brisk runs and repeat 5Ks in training. I also built from something like 6x1 mile to 8x1mile (somewhere between 10k and half marathon pace). That helped my legs be able to handle the speed without hammering the speed in bigger workouts. I just feel like you are going too far too fast and jeopardizing your body with these really long MP workouts. Break that down into separate workouts like speed one day (repeat miles) or endurance (long run) another day rather than forcing it all into the same run. If you want to do it the same day, stick to the repeat 5Ks.

I've seen a lot of people creep up the distance of their MP runs to the point where by the end of their cycle they leave their race in one of their final workouts and then are either fatigued or injured after that.

Find that “dark” area within you and tap into it during the race

Everyone has a dark side and running with that dark passenger by your side is the way to rack up PR’s

Well, the race is in just a couple weeks. It sounds like I should probably consider even taking a few days off, maybe even the entire weekend. It would drive me crazy, but maybe it's the best move at this point. As anyone does, I fear losing fitness.

Definitely take a day or two off, or very minimal easy jogging at the most. Make sure that hamstring is healthy. I've been following this thread because my goal last year was very similar to your current goal. But I must say your fitness is far superior to mine (and I ran 3:07:23). The last time I could match some of your training paces, I very easily ran 2:56:03. Probably my strongest training run during that cycle was five weeks out -- 14 miles at 7:02/mile. That's comparable to your 17-miler at 7:03/mi a few weeks ago. My weekly mileage peaked at only 63, averaged about 44. Have you raced at all during this marathon cycle? How do your race times compare to your training paces? For me there is a huge difference between racing performance and even my highest quality training runs. For example, a week after running 7:02/mi for that 14-miler -- by far my strongest effort -- I raced a half marathon at 6:19/mi. No way I could even approach that in training. Best wishes.

IndyJ wrote:

Did 17 miles today @ 7:03. Last mile 6:38. Slowest 7:18.

In regards to training paces versus race-day performance, out of curiosity I took a look at my training log prior to running 6:19-pace for the half marathon.

During the prior 16 weeks, I ran a total of only FOUR miles at 6:19 or faster during training runs. The only other faster running was two VO2max workouts (5x1000 and 5x600), three 5K races and an 8K race.

If race-day magic works as well for you, then sub-3 wouldn't be out-of-question. The main thing now is to get/stay healthy. The training is done. You won't lose fitness between now and race day.

Tapintoyourdarkside wrote:

Find that “dark” area within you and tap into it during the race

Everyone has a dark side and running with that dark passenger by your side is the way to rack up PR’s

We know it is you , Dexter.

So did you hit the 3:10?

BQ? wrote:

So did you hit the 3:10?

Looks like it was a 3:17:XX finish for him.

Anon25 wrote:

BQ? wrote:

So did you hit the 3:10?

Looks like it was a 3:17:XX finish for him.

Correct. Second 3:17 in a row! The hills did me in. I imagine they aren't that hard for a lot of runners here, but I train on very flat trail, and just wasn't trained for Kalamazoo's hills.

I'm basically right on it, though. I'm going to plan to run Milwaukee this fall, which is supposed to be a fast course, and tweak a couple things in training:

1. Improve my nutrition.

2. No more long runs over 20 miles. I got a little caught up in a "more is more" mentality, and I think it might have led to some hamstring difficulties that interfered with any kind of workouts a couple times throughout.

It was interesting training for a spring marathon. So many miles in the cold and dark early in the morning, and then on race day it's sunny and in the 60s.

The good news is, I did win my age group (men 40 to 44), and I know how much LRC loves age-groupers!

Oh, I forgot one other thing: I think I lost a minute or two, turning the wrong way.

I'm not good at remembering where things occurred on a course - I'm someone who is only worried about the mile he's on - but at some point, we dumped out into a four-lane highway, I think, and I couldn't tell which way to go, and so I turned right. I kept looking for the person who had been ahead of me, but didn't see her. So I looked back the other way, over my shoulder, and there were about five or six spectators sprinting after me and shouting, so I turned around.

My Garmin said 26.30 at the finish.

I think I saw you near the end? Running with 3:15 pace group. First marathon for me, had a decent run but the sun and temps left me a little disappointed where I thought my fitness was based on my training. We probably had the best day of the week weather wise. Too bad as like you, all my runs were in the single digits to 30’s in training and we had 60’s the day of the race.

Hills at end are tough. Good luck in Milwaukee

Kazoo Runner wrote:

I think I saw you near the end? Running with 3:15 pace group. First marathon for me, had a decent run but the sun and temps left me a little disappointed where I thought my fitness was based on my training. We probably had the best day of the week weather wise. Too bad as like you, all my runs were in the single digits to 30’s in training and we had 60’s the day of the race.

Hills at end are tough. Good luck in Milwaukee

I had a friend run the Indy Mini on Saturday and they really got slammed by the temperatures - maybe 10 to 15 above what we had. I thought Kalamazoo was fun as a challenge, and I’d do it again from that aspect. Cool town, too, with Arcadia sand Bell’s there. But not a PR course, at least for me.

The silver lining is that a spring marathon got me through the winter in no worse condition then I entered it. That counts for something.

I'm signed up for the Milwaukee Marathon on October 7 for my third shot at a Boston time. (Previous two tries were both 3:17s, two minutes shy of an official BQ and probably seven minutes short of comfortably being in the field.)

I tested myself at 10K yesterday morning and covered it at a 6:31 pace, which was a PR for me.

So hopefully I'm on track.

IndyJ wrote:

It's my seventh marathon, but really it's my third for these purposes:

2001 - 5:05

2002 - 4:55

2003 - 4:36

2004 - 4:22

2016 - 3:40

2017 - 3:17

2018 - ?

You've run a significant PR in every marathon you've ever done. You don't need advice from anyone, just keep going!

Surprise! wrote:

IndyJ wrote:

It's my seventh marathon, but really it's my third for these purposes:

2001 - 5:05

2002 - 4:55

2003 - 4:36

2004 - 4:22

2016 - 3:40

2017 - 3:17

2018 - ?

You've run a significant PR in every marathon you've ever done. You don't need advice from anyone, just keep going!

Keep reading. I logged another 3:17 in the spring, where that question mark is. :)

With the benefit of hindsight and a few months reflection, I think it was largely some hamstring issues that slowed my training.

Update:

3:09:38

Whoo hoo!

Congrats on a great improvement! Please share with us what you did differently this time around.

Let's go dot com wrote:

Congrats on a great improvement! Please share with us what you did differently this time around.

I mostly stuck to the Pfitzinger 12-week, 70+ mile program. I didn’t do strides and I occasionally turned a six-mile daily runs into 10K time trials. I did most of the doubles as directed, but occasionally just did the miles all at once in the morning, if life got in the way.

In the past, I overdid the marathon pace runs - too often and too long - and I ended up with some hamstring pulls that probably cost me some minutes. I really had to end up over-tapering in the spring.

Other than that, we had great weather - mid-50s and overcast. I was worried the wall would come after 22 or 23, as it has in the past, but I kept reminding myself that I had put in the miles this time. It was helpful that 23 and 24, I believe, slopes downhill. I was definitely feeling it. Had to turn off the headphones to concentrate solely on pace for about the last eight.

I finished at 7:19 and 7:33. I really had to gut out the last mile, but when I saw 3:09:xx on the finish line clock, I was able to gun it through the end.