Heck, most of my easy runs were 8:30-9:00 when I ran 3:09....basically just following Hanson's method. One day 10-15seconds sub mp for 6 miles of intervals (2x3, 3x2, 4x1.5, etc). One day MP up to 10 miles in 13 total. One day steady/long. The rest 8:30-9min up to 60 miles. Definitely don't start running easy days faster, but I don't think you were thinking that.
wrong mindset wrote:
Heck, most of my easy runs were 8:30-9:00 when I ran 3:09....basically just following Hanson's method. One day 10-15seconds sub mp for 6 miles of intervals (2x3, 3x2, 4x1.5, etc). One day MP up to 10 miles in 13 total. One day steady/long. The rest 8:30-9min up to 60 miles. Definitely don't start running easy days faster, but I don't think you were thinking that.
Ya keep the easy days easy of course. As you stated, Hanson's has 10 mile tempos at MP all the way up to 10 days out from race day, so if OP wanted to do a few more miles at MP I don't think 12-13 two weeks out would hurt. Of course if he does that he should NOT do 10 at MP just a few days later.
As for the actual race week I would keep things pretty easy, other than some speed work around 5 days out. Something like 3x1600 followed by 4x400, or even a little less if he prefers. Then just easy runs until race day - maybe easy with some strides the day before the race (3-5 miles).
If you ran 3.17 of 75mpw then id say you simply ran too much, or what you did run was too hard. Drop it down to 50/60 and hit some quality is my random internet stranger advice. Can understand people wanting to hit 2.30 doing 75,80+ a week but for dues wanting 3.10-3.15? No. Stop. Train smarter.
HahaRiiiiiiight wrote:
wrong mindset wrote:
Heck, most of my easy runs were 8:30-9:00 when I ran 3:09....basically just following Hanson's method. One day 10-15seconds sub mp for 6 miles of intervals (2x3, 3x2, 4x1.5, etc). One day MP up to 10 miles in 13 total. One day steady/long. The rest 8:30-9min up to 60 miles. Definitely don't start running easy days faster, but I don't think you were thinking that.
Ya keep the easy days easy of course. As you stated, Hanson's has 10 mile tempos at MP all the way up to 10 days out from race day, so if OP wanted to do a few more miles at MP I don't think 12-13 two weeks out would hurt. Of course if he does that he should NOT do 10 at MP just a few days later.
As for the actual race week I would keep things pretty easy, other than some speed work around 5 days out. Something like 3x1600 followed by 4x400, or even a little less if he prefers. Then just easy runs until race day - maybe easy with some strides the day before the race (3-5 miles).
yeah. i wouldn't do a MP workout and a long run with MP pace in the same week. just once a week up till ~2 weeks out, do up to about 10-13 MP miles. don't drop it 5 weeks out like he did last time. Last 1.5-2 weeks is easy or easy + strides. Sorry if that was confusing. "closer to the race" meant before the taper...while he's still 5 weeks out like now. Not the last 2 weeks.
wrong mindset wrote:
hobblejogger wrote:
Honestly, miles 22-26 don't have to suck.
They do if you want to wring every bit of juice out of that orange.
By your account you ran several 60 weeks, a 70, and a 100 mile week and only averaged 44mpw??? So if we assume four 60s is “a few,” then the other 12 weeks you only averaged 32mpw? Did you just wreck yourself so bad on the high weeks it took you 2 weeks to recover, then you said “let’s do that again”? That’s a nonsensical training plan. There is no magic to hitting 100mpw. Consistent moderately high mileage is so much more beneficial than climbing to 100 once for the sake of 100. Not to mention, the OP has already made the jump from 3:4x to 3:teens….your input isn’t helping him get to the next step. The OP isn’t asking how to finish a marathon comfortably. He could do that tomorrow if he wanted to jog 26.2 miles. He’s asking how to get to 3:10. Pros run 130mpw average...ask Shalane if the last few miles at NYC still hurt.
I do agree with EZ10Miler about not going out too fast. That or getting hurt are probably the two biggest mistakes the OP could make in the time he has left.
Nope, it was all easy aerobic running so there was no "wrecking" going on. I dealt with general fatigue and was basically just taking it easy. I liked having a low week, some mids, and one high week as opposed to constant mids. I honestly think it was the high week that did the trick. I felt amazing the following week and was running faster than ever before. That didn't happen after the 60s or 70s weeks.
I agree, him getting hurt would be mistake number one, and he's nursing the hammy a bit as it is. Thus my suggestion. I think a lot of beginners, myself included, skip the aerobic base phase and he could stand to benefit from it. Or he's carrying around extra weight. Something is off. If I'm wrong, then welcome to the internet....take it or leave it.
The key to the marathon for me at 38 years old now is tempo/progression runs. 10 mile tempos at current half marathon fitness and long runs 18-20 miles at marathon pace plus 30 seconds. I'm only doing 35-40 miles per week but my marathon average after 13 marathons is right at 3:00 flat. PR of 2:47:00 and have now run under 3 hours five times.
HMArunner wrote:
The key to the marathon for me at 38 years old now is tempo/progression runs. 10 mile tempos at current half marathon fitness and long runs 18-20 miles at marathon pace plus 30 seconds. I'm only doing 35-40 miles per week but my marathon average after 13 marathons is right at 3:00 flat. PR of 2:47:00 and have now run under 3 hours five times.
So you do those two workouts, and then you run 5-10 miles total for the rest of the week? Now this is the no aerobic base guy, hobble jogger. Not the guy running 70mpw with only one workout. That guy's got plenty of aerobic work.
HMArunner wrote:10 mile tempos at current half marathon fitness
Bwah?
You'd be surprised the hero workouts you can pull off when you only run 3 days/week.
wrong mindset wrote:
You'd be surprised the hero workouts you can pull off when you only run 3 days/week.
This is true. I have a friend who runs, as well. Marathon PR 3:44. He's running 10-11 mile tempo runs right around 7:00, maybe in the high 6:50s at this point. But he's only running 35-40 mpw. I'm interested to see how he does in the Shamrock Shuffle this weekend.
I dropped my times from 3:56, 3:24, 3:23, 3:11, and just recently 3:09:25 last week on a fairly hilly LA course. Im 40 year old male,married 2 kids, full time job.
I followed Pfitz 18 week 55 plan from his advanced marathoning book., so my max week was 55. Im about 175 lbs so not really thin for a runner.
I think some of the biggest differences this time was I kept the intensity up during the taper just cut back mileage a little bit. Carb loaded much better. Took enough gu and liquids throughout the race. Plus got lucky with ideal weather. My tempo runs and intervals were also faster than last cycle, and kept the easy days easy , sometimes as slow as 9-9:20 pace.I did a couple 10k tuneups as well.
I did I think 4 MP runs of 8, 10, 12 and 14 but that 14 mp 18 mile total - 5 weeks out was a big confidence booster..
higher mileage should def help, I know 55 max is minimal really, but it sometimes is the quality over quantity. I also was pretty dedicated and didn't skip any runs I think consistency is the key.
Started slow and actually had my 26th mile my fastest of the whole race at 6:46.
Any way good luck. I know I am not super fast for this site but that is what worked for me.
Banner wrote:
If you ran 3.17 of 75mpw then id say you simply ran too much, or what you did run was too hard. Drop it down to 50/60 and hit some quality is my random internet stranger advice. Can understand people wanting to hit 2.30 doing 75,80+ a week but for dues wanting 3.10-3.15? No. Stop. Train smarter.
I agree that what he posted is a lot of training for not much return BUT....
The marathon has an incredible number of factors that play into your performance, more than any other race distance. He could have been in sub3 shape but had bad weather, or his fueling went to crap, or he let race day jitters get him so his pacing with garbage. Also, some days it's just not your day to run well. It sucks when it hits on race day, but it happens.
Did 17 miles today @ 7:03. Last mile 6:38. Slowest 7:18.
I can't say I was comfortable the entire time, but I certainly wasn't in agony, either. Some of the "discomfort" was psychological.
The marathon, again, is May 6.
Yep. For me, I PR'd the Flying Pig last year with 3:10 and half your weekly mileage (plus about 75mpw of cycling). I think your goal might be a little soft.
ToadallyPossible wrote:
Yep. For me, I PR'd the Flying Pig last year with 3:10 and half your weekly mileage (plus about 75mpw of cycling). I think your goal might be a little soft.
That's kind of why I went out today turning 7:00s instead of 7:14s. I wanted to see if I was potentially in 3:05 shape. On one hand, I'll be ecstatic to get a solid BQ time (at least -5). On the other, I'd hate to leave minutes on the table.
On the third hand, if you go out too fast and blow up you run the greatest risk of not getting the BQ at all. Sometimes it's a matter of you picking what is highest priority to you. BQ or bust, or max PR or bust. (Or it all works out and you do both...that run sounds pretty solid if you didn't cut mileage and you aren't hurting for days after)
IndyJ wrote:
ToadallyPossible wrote:
Yep. For me, I PR'd the Flying Pig last year with 3:10 and half your weekly mileage (plus about 75mpw of cycling). I think your goal might be a little soft.
That's kind of why I went out today turning 7:00s instead of 7:14s. I wanted to see if I was potentially in 3:05 shape. On one hand, I'll be ecstatic to get a solid BQ time (at least -5). On the other, I'd hate to leave minutes on the table.
I know this will get me flamed, but I think you're overdoing it on the effort part based on that goal marathon time. Keep in mind I am not an expert runner by any means, and my marathons look like this:
2013: 4:29
2014: 3:30
2015: 3:19
2016: Injured, 2 stress fractures from overtraining
2017: 3:10
2018: Hopeful 3:05, based on Feb 1:25 half
wrong mindset wrote:
On the third hand, if you go out too fast and blow up you run the greatest risk of not getting the BQ at all. Sometimes it's a matter of you picking what is highest priority to you. BQ or bust, or max PR or bust. (Or it all works out and you do both...that run sounds pretty solid if you didn't cut mileage and you aren't hurting for days after)
I did 74 last week, including a 16-miler at 7:15 and a 23-miler at 8:16.
And I had an imperial stout (12.5 percent) and an ounce of bourbon last night to celebrate a victory in court, so maybe I could have been even faster otherwise. :)
Maybe some MP miles mixed in. Mileage is plenty for the goal. Sounds like nutrition during taper week and especially during the race is the issue. Fading/pain will occur but solid nutrition should power you through. Maybe a little caffeine at 20-21 to stay focused