Calling out males who have internally debated to become a nurse vs. doctor

I'm just curious as to what type of NP's all who are involved in this post have chosen?

FNP (Family NP), AGACNP (Adult-Gerontological Acute Care NP), PMHNP (Psychiatric Mental Health NP), or something else. CRNA (Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist) is a great track (good workflow and pay), but you need at least 1 year of ICU experience.

I am a runner and experienced ICU RN who lives in NH who has chosen the Psychiatric Mental Health NP. Though I do have thoughts at times whether that's the best choice.

And yes, depending on the NP program the cost is very reasonable, especially if you have a decent paying job (like RN), which you can work through school and pay out of pocket.

In the long run, becoming a MD and absorbing student loans is worth it financially. However, you must be discipline to pay the loans off. Unfortunately, the cost of education is outrageous.

My friend, after getting married and starting a family, went back to school to be a nurse. In school, she realized that she was bored and found it unfulfilling. She applied to medical school, got into Cornell and is a doctor now couldn’t be happier.

You are too smart to be a nurse and you will probably be bored. Doctors don’t make as much as they used to, but still more than NPs, and within some specialties, a lot more. Plus the opportunity to do more in the future, should you decide to do it, is much greater. Top consulting firms like McKinsey live MD/MBAs; biotech VCs hire PhDs and doctors, not nurses. You can do research more easily. You may be happy with an NP lifestyle, but what if that changes? Being a doctor will afford you much more opportunity.

From a social perspective, doctors also remain the most respected occupation in our society and culture. Patients always want to know what the doctor thinks, not the nurse. People in the community look up to doctors. Parents still want their children to marry doctors, and many women will say otherwise but would prefer a doctor over a nurse.

There are pros and cons, but you can always live an NP lifestyle as an MD (albeit with more debt), but it will be much harder to go the other way.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

Coming from an ER doc, that’s a laugh. Most ER doctors are by nature of their jobs, poor physicians. ‘Shiftwork mentality’, poor training in basic concepts of internal medicine/surgery/ob/peds leads to a doctor that can at best triage to a ward and leaves after their 12 hrs are up. No continuity with patients, no idea if what they did was right or wrong, leaves a mess for real doctors to clean up.

And hospitalists are just as bad, if not worse.

Nice ad hominem attack. Just contributing my 2 cents from my personal experience.

For the record, ER docs are pretty damn good at what we do. Now go back to the your cold dark OR hole.

food for thought:

I've met many nurses/NPs/PAs who wished they'd just become doctors, and know a few who left nursing to pursue becoming a doctor. In fact there were several in my med school class.

I've never met a doctor who wished they'd taken the quicker route and become a nurse/NP/PA.

BTW, I'm not saying it's all roses. It absolutely isn't. But the same problems that plague doctors plaque mid levels, with much less compensation.

-$200k taxed at 40% means you'll bring home around $120k (Your malpractice insurance will run you approximately $30,000 each year, depending on specialty. So, you're bringing home $90k. 28% of physicians saw a decrease in their salary over the last 4 years.

100m wrote:

Every time I hear somebody ‘debating’ about being a nurse/np or a physician, that person ends up being a dud, academically, who could never get into a top medical school - let alone ANY medical school at all. Show me your 99th percentile MCATs and excellent GPA in a challenging major (math, physics; chemistry and biology to a lesser extent), and then we will talk about the possibility of medical school. Being a physician is a true gift and honor. Many specialties allow for a lifestyle balance, but ALL great physicians are dedicated to their scientific and clinical work. Almost anybody can become a nurse and subsequently an NP. Make sure you meet academic requirements before even beginning to consider a career as a physician.

This^

Thank you very much- I am super excited!

whatsupchucky wrote:

food for thought:

I've met many nurses/NPs/PAs who wished they'd just become doctors, and know a few who left nursing to pursue becoming a doctor. In fact there were several in my med school class.

I've never met a doctor who wished they'd taken the quicker route and become a nurse/NP/PA.

---------

I disagree.

I know multiple doctors, specifically a general surgeon, who wished that he became a CRNA instead of a general surgeon. Sure, he would probably be making half the $ (probably ~350K vs ~170K) but there are only 4 surgeons in the hospital at which I work, so they hours and call are brutal.

adam_gilman wrote:

whatsupchucky wrote:

food for thought:

I've met many nurses/NPs/PAs who wished they'd just become doctors, and know a few who left nursing to pursue becoming a doctor. In fact there were several in my med school class.

I've never met a doctor who wished they'd taken the quicker route and become a nurse/NP/PA.

---------

I disagree.

I know multiple doctors, specifically a general surgeon, who wished that he became a CRNA instead of a general surgeon. Sure, he would probably be making half the $ (probably ~350K vs ~170K) but there are only 4 surgeons in the hospital at which I work, so they hours and call are brutal.

Boo freaking hoo. Every 4th night call? Every 4th weekend call? Big deal. He also makes rvu bonuses, and so likely makes much closer to $550k/yr if he's as busy as he claims to be. Sounds like he needs a tampon, not a different job. And guess what? Crna's also take call.

I realize that this post is directed towards males debating the MD/NP route but here's my two cents. I have been an NP for 20 years and have never regretted my decision. I worked in primary care pediatrics up until 5 years ago and now work in a specialty clinic. Yes, certainly from a totally professional perspective, being an NP isn't nearly as interesting and challenging as being an MD. But for me, that's been totally fine because the trade off is that I can spend more time with my family and running, among other things. I actually don't want more responsibility and am well aware that I gave something up in the process. I work very closely with female MDs with young children who desperately want to cut back on their hours/responsibilities but who don't feel like they can or should given the years of medical school/residency and student loans. I'm older now and quite comfortable with my overall lack of professional ambition which was easier to accept when I had kids.

So true! Grinding it out to the finish line! Every time I hear one of the radiologist whine because they’re taking call on a computer in their underwear my sleep deprived mind wants to explode. Call is part of the job. If you don’t want call become a dentist, plastic surgeon or dermatologist.

Plastic Surgeons absolutely take call.

This is like saying I rather be a paralegal for the free time when I can become a partner at a big law firm. Whatever tricks you use to keep your heads up.

I've graduated PA school just over 4 years ago. I work in a family practice clinic for reference. I do almost exactly what our doctors do minus ob, call and hospital admits/rounding.

A good friend's dad is a very successful dermatologist and he recommended to his son's and myself to become PA's. His only reasons for going MD was if the money really mattered or you have to be in charge.

I work essentially completely autonomously. I see my supervising physician once a month. He reviews some charts and I've called him one in the last three months with a question.

Any more few docs owns their own practice. Specialties are where the money is at. The thing no one has mentioned is the best specialties are super competitive. If you want to do derm, radiology or plastics you best be top 10% of your med school class.

Time is a huge factor in why I choose to become a mid-level. The general surgeon I followed did a 7 year residency averaging up to 120 hours a week (this was before restrictions). Even in practice he was easily pouring in 70 to 80 hour weeks. He doesn't see his family and his wife said she wishes he had gone to dental school like their neighbor. It was by far the most meaningful and interesting specialty I saw but that was his life.

The derm I rotated with worked 35 hrs and made 700k but was bored out of his mind.

A lot of rambling but in short I haven't met a PA or NP that regrets their choice but I've never heard a doctor say that either. I like what I do will be debt free in a year and provide well for my family. There is a lot more stress than your average job but also more satisfaction.

Wha wrote:

My sister is an ER Dr. She speaks highly of nurse practitioners and says they're very smart because they have much less debt with not a huge difference in income.

If you go into dermatology, even more lucrative.

Per MGMA TOTAL compensation 2015 data the average NP makes about 100k gross.

Poorest doctors make 230k

Richest doctors make 600k or so.

MD public school is 35k on average with yearly increases. 160k of debt due to tuition after med school. Living costs shouldn't be included since you'd have had living costs if you hadn't went to med school.

Residents make 57k on average for 3-7 yrs.

Crunch the numbers with taxes and living costs included--us physicians still come out way ahead over the NP.

I picked a low paid specialty but even so I have the option of working in the boonies and making 250-300k.

And I like knowing a bit about the human body. I met an NP the other day that asked me what 36x10 was.

Me: really?!

A CRNA I met as a stupid MS3 didn't know what takayasu's arteritis was.

The fact that the NP didn't know what 36x10 was is obviously NOT related to medicine.

I was just showing how the people that become midlevel providers TEND to have much worse resumes and interest in academics. Well and just IQ in general.

Come on, let's be real. The top dogs almost always want to be leaders and not followers.

A young guy that wants to be a follower isn't seen as manly by most people. If it's an older person changing careers I can understand nursing as a career. But it is still an emaaculating job.

You come off as insecure. I curved most all of my upper division bio classes filled with future doctors and dentists. There is no question in my mind I am as smart as the average MD. Most PA programs are more competitive than med school to get into. The quality/intelligence of my classmates was impressive. I never took the mcat as my mind was made up to go to PA school but my GPA was better than many guys who got into med school. I wanted more time for hobbies and with my family and that is exactly what I got out of the deal. I wouldn't change it but to me money matters very little.

As far as pay if that is all that matters to you by all means become a doc. But most docs will go into primary care. In fact unfortunately most of the worst preforming docs end up there. Average salary is listed under 200k. Many go to more expensive private schools and cost of living factors in a big way. Studies show the average female in primary care is better off going PA route over doc financially. I know a PA making just under 300k but he works 80 hours and the money is what really matters to him. It is all about your priorities but it is hard to find an old man who wishes he had spent more time at the office.